Episode 04 - Ski In Sell Out (Rebrand)

0:12 Okay. Welcome to Ski In, Ski out. No, Lauren just said dick face to start the conversation. Oh, ski in, sell out, dick face. Yeah, used to be. Keep it Real estate. Doesn't that seem extra bad now? It seems extra bad. You don't have to point out how bad I am. It's okay. I mean, I can say we never left it. It was a placeholder. I was a placeholder. I'm really glad we got to do an interview with Christine called. What was it? Skiing. Oh, hers was pixie dust. Awesome. It was good. Oh, you were saying you're glad it was still named that for her. For her. And she didn't bat an eye. I mean, maybe she's a little too kind. What do you think her feedback of Ski Ann's sellout would be?

1:06 I think she would like it. She's. She plays neutral really well. Much better than I think you and I do, so I think she would. She would never name anything that for herself, but. So she's more of a professional than us. Indeed. In some regard, she's more of an adult. That's actually been something I've been trying to think about. When I think about who to book for this thing is who can. Because I thought Christine was going to be maybe a little more funny. Right. And like you said, after we talked, we kind of circled up after, and you're like, I could see her kind of go into, like, work mode. And, you know, that's a muscle that she's trained for years and years and years.

1:57 And maybe this will be our avenue to either train that muscle and figure out how to kind of navigate in and out of it, but. Because whenever I'm with her not doing something like this, it's like pure giggles. Yeah, it's all giggles. Right. And so I think we have to figure out how do we get people comfortable to go there, being themselves? Like, how do we get better at this environment? Putting on headphones and talking into a microphone, getting people to be their genuine self. Because nobody's fucking listening. Okay. That's what I was going to say. And I think that is the side is. It's not necessarily the headphones and the microphone. I think it's the. Who's going to hear me say this? And the great news is nobody.

2:39 Yeah, break. Molly's office here. She's about knocked over her art. Yeah. You think that came from World Market? Maybe. It's not an Amazon delivery anyway. So, yeah, I think that's going to be one of our challenges. What do you think getting people to be Themselves. So funny. I was talking to my son about this on SN because I think it is a. A maturing process that we go through in life. You know, he's 12 and he's in the midst of, like, you know, this friend acts the same around him whether there's other friends around or not, but this friend doesn't. You know, that whole dynamic and talking about the.

3:27 The experience as you get older of fine tuning that process where you can stay yourself in every situation, but you understand how to read the situation to match what is being asked of you. So I don't know that I'm ever going. I know I can say I am not ever going to be that person who walks into a fancy dinner and doesn't make some jackass comment or, you know, throw some fucks around. That might be mildly inappropriate. But I can read the room and I can appreciate, like, oh, that's my husband's like, boss, boss. I should probably rein it in a little bit. So I think it depends on where they are in the process of being able to show up as themselves and trust and comfort and who's listening.

4:17 Yeah, exactly. I think it has to do with, like, how do you make somebody in this environment feel comfortable, as comfortable as they are in this environment, without. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, most people aren't comfortable showing them, Showing everybody their true self. And because there's a chance somebody might hear something, the true self gets shut down pretty quickly. Yeah, it's hard to be your true self on stage. Yeah, I like, that's a unique. Yeah, that's a unique thing. Well, it's vulnerable. I know I talk about their podcast all the time, but I think Dax Shepard does a good job of getting people to be comfortable because he is, for what you can tell.

4:58 I mean, I'm sure there's things that he doesn't share, but from what you can tell from his podcast, he's kind of like, here's all my dirty laundry and all the ways that I've screwed up and all the stupid shit I've done, take with it. What? You know, take it or leave it. Do you think of people? I'm not convinced that everybody that goes on to his podcast or any podcast, but in that one in particular, like, I've listened to enough of them where somebody comes on, it's the first time they met. Like, they don't actually know that about him. Yeah, like, he gives that to them in the moment. Yeah, I agree with that. But see, that's again, like, Christine knows That about both of us. Yeah, that's true. And yet she still had that vibe to shut it down. So I think it also comes down to, like, we're talking about their profession, their. Potentially their identity, how they navigate that. You know, maybe at some point in the future, people will have heard enough of this to be like, oh, I've listened to an episode and I see kind of where you're going with it. And they can lean in a little bit, and maybe. Maybe we get enough feedback from the community that kind of dictates behavior here, so. Which is a weird thing to even say out loud because it's like, oh, now I kind of want some feedback from the community that's positive so that people feel free to come here and be themselves. But then how do you be your authentic self? And, you know, because part of this is judgmental, for sure. Right. There's no question about it. Like, the fact that

6:30 we would have to laugh at the name Keeping It Real Estate. The fact that there are like 20. 20 different podcasts out there called Keeping It Real Estate, which was a trip to me. Yeah. But also super enlightening. Right. Like, not that original of a person. I'm pointing at myself. Just not an original thought. Originality takes a lot of effort. Right. Trying to cast a really wide net, probably not the best idea right out of the gate. Like, trying to appeal to an audience bigger than you and I is like, whatever. That's. That's not worthwhile. And then as I kind of noodled on all these names and we were bouncing a few back and forth and ski and sellout came out, and I honestly, like, I don't know that the sellout. I think the sellout thing. I think it could be a sellout. Question mark. Right. Is it selling out?

7:28 I don't know. Well, it's up for the discretion of whoever's hearing the name. Is it insulting? Could be for some people. But I think that's the. That's why I like it so much for us, is because I think we both immediately liked it and we're not afraid of the implications of what somebody else's judgment of it could be. Yeah. Which is kind of the big picture. Does it. Here's one place where I have concern about it, and it's not a deep enough concern to even consider a change in any way. But when you're talking about trying to appeal to.

8:16 To like a luxury buyer or seller. Right. Somebody with a hundred million dollars and they buy and sell $10 million properties because of proximity to Their coffee shop or whatever reason it is that they have. I don't care about the reason. I. I make decisions that seem absolutely ridiculous to people with less means than I. Right. For things that I totally justify. Yeah. You know, we just remodeled our house on a freaking TV show, and we daylighted how much money we spent on it, and we, you know, it's like, it was really hard for Joanna to get there. Right. Like we say on national TV, we're going to spend $350,000 to not really change much except for the way our house feels on the inside. Right. And maybe the way it presents to others when they occasionally come over.

9:14 Right. There are some elements, livability for our kids that are worth anything. But did it function well? Would most people in the world be, like, over the moon to have what we had before? Absolutely. What would they do with $350,000? Hell of a lot more than what we just did with that money. So just because the numbers are different doesn't mean I don't understand the judgment of it. Yeah. Right. So I don't want to minimize that. But at the same time, like, does ski in sellout speak to somebody who considers themselves in that echelon of people? Right. They're flying on private jets and they're buying $20 million homes. Do they hear that and go, what's their.

9:58 What's their impression? Do you think they matter or. I don't know. I mean, I think my first impression is it still comes back to, I don't think that our approach is going to be for everybody. Yeah. And I think the both of us are relatively steadfast in that and are working on getting more steadfast in it, especially as we're starting. But I think that is part of our offering. So if that is something that turns somebody away, we have to be okay with that. It's not outwardly offensive. It's, you know, or if it is, then that is okay. But if it were blatantly, whatever, that's one thing. But. Well, it also might even be, I think, when given the opportunity to talk about it, it's actually a little bit of a magnet because it's like, look, in a community like this, I'm somebody you can talk to.

10:53 And I can tell you that the people who patronize the corner store have, for the last 20 years, many of them. Right. Who consider it like a home base, probably would consider what I'm doing selling out. But then an equal number of them are people who I'm selling out to provide a service for so that they can feel like they are a part of this community and feel like they have an authentic foothold here and they don't have to give up who they are and what they worked for and how they got here. Right. They don't have to give up the idea that they can have a $10 million home and still want a cheap beer at the corner store. That's okay, right? Like, that's fine. That's great. Come on in.

11:47 Right? Like, we accept all comers. And I've been trying to preach that to the community up there for a long time. It's an interesting conversation. The judgmental part of it is really like the lower economic group or the group that's on the lower part of the economic spectrum judges the group on. The upper echelons, don't we? I mean, we've talked about that. Why do we do that? Why do they do that? I don't know. Why do. Why do we do that? Because we're fucking jealous. What is at the root of that? I mean, yes, could I say there are tons of people that have a lot of disadvantage that could really benefit from X, Y and Z money. And here's this person buying a $10 million house. We can run circles around that conversation forever and ever.

12:35 But if I am sitting in judgment of somebody who has all that money and still wants to buy a PBR at the corner store, it's because I would like that choice as well. Totally. Ten years ago, you would have. You would have begged. You would have been jealous of what you and I currently have a hundred percent. Right? And it's like, it's. That conversation about the horizon line is never enough. I was having this conversation this morning with a buddy of mine who was in the coffee shop, and he. He got into the spec home game from selling medical devices. Right.

13:18 So he was in a high sales world, and then he went into the spec home world and I totally lost my train of thought. What were we talking about? Judgment. People with a lot of money being judged by the less that don't have it. Yeah, I'm going to say something out loud. Here's my learnings right now that I just realized. Huh, don't drink a bubbly when you're on a podcast, because I just burp. Well, if I did, that's all I would do. Don't chew gum on the podcast. Podcast. I don't remember. I don't know. So this is. Oh, we're gonna edit this out. All that weed I smoked in high school as coming Back to. Remember the commercial when we were kids where it would show the frying pan on the stove? Yeah, yeah. Don't do drugs.

14:09 This is your burn on drugs. Yeah, but I did all those drugs. I remember that perfectly. I can't remember what I was talking about five minutes ago. That's so funny. You saw the guy, he selling back home. Doesn't matter. We were talking about something about the. People are going to listen to this and be like, dude, just. Nobody's going to listen. Well, I mean, I think I have done reflecting on. Actually, this is what you're making me think of. Barely is. I had my first conversation yesterday, not planned, with a friend who's in my field. Has. I've known him forever. He's worked at a few different places.

14:53 He sent me a text because he saw that we were hiring a therapist, and he was like, why are you guys hiring a therapist? He just recently came out into it, so he knows our deal. And I was in between meetings, and I fired off a quick text that was like, we're hiring therapists because we need our clinical director and our executive director to have lowercase loads. And there's other factors. I'll call you later. And I was like, fuck, that sounds cryptic. Okay, that wasn't supposed to sound cryptic, but I'll call it in. So I had to call him and tell him that I was leaving. And he was like, God damn it, where are you going? Because everybody in our field just trips through the well. They go down the programs. You just. It's like you staying in this world, which was good. This world's been good for him, but.

15:38 And I said, no, you're not going to believe what I'm doing. I'm going to go sell real estate. And he was like, get the fuck out. He's like, I have a group text with, like, six people in our field who are good friends of mine, and it is a running joke. Who's going to sell real estate first? And I was like, me. I am. Yeah. Be the tip of the spear, though. He was like. I was like, are you judging me? He's like, no. A little. Yes, he is. For sure. A little. For sure. Which is. That's why it's a funny joke. Hence this podcast. Hence these conversations. Yeah, right. Like, this is it. This is what I'm talking about. I don't think people know. Yeah, yeah. Realtors don't seem to know. You think?

16:26 I'm not sure. I don't think so. That there's judge. Maybe I don't Know it's getting muddier the more I do it, you know. Christine knew for sure. Did she. What did she say that indicated she knew? Just I. My takeaway was that she acknowledged. I mean, she went through a few things of, like, I know the stereotype that people think that real estate people don't work very hard, that they don't, you know, all those things. And then I think she did make reference to something along the lines of the assumptions that people make around who these people are and what their motivation is. I don't know. She's sitting around. Is that you? Okay, so I guess the question is, what's unique about it to real estate? Because I'm thinking about other industries.

17:19 I think it's just sales. Sales jobs in general have that, or real estate is just sales. I think real estate fits into the sales bucket. And sales jobs in general have the assumption that whoever that person is doesn't have good motives, is just out to get theirs. Do or say whatever they can to make the deal. Like a used car salesman. It's awesome. Do you think it's so interesting? Because just the few, you know, the handful of deals that I did this summer, it's interesting. There's a. There's sort of a spoken yet unspoken acceptance of that part, right? Of like, oh, you're my salesperson.

18:09 I did deals with really good friends. I did deals with people I've known for a long time and aren't really good friends, but all of a sudden are much better friends. I did a deal with a guy I met on a. At a gym, right? Like riding the peloton next to me or whatever it was. And all of them require. They asked high level questions. They needed high level answers. They were putting millions of dollars on the line. And the things that they needed from me are real.

18:52 They're real, right? The consequences for doing them wrong are high. They cost a lot of money. There are legal consequences. There are all these little elements to it that build this aura when you're doing the job of this shit's important. It's important to do it well because there are consequences and because it's other people's stuff, right? It's not mine. And so it's like, it's so interesting that, like, those judgments you could hear, I could feel it in those people, right? Like, my good friends are like, you know, you're our realtor. I know, I know. But also, your inspection is scheduled. Here's how I read it.

19:39 If I don't know something, I have a broker and A lawyer. And I have, you know, other eyes that I'm going to put on it. And I am going to be the person who tries to help you navigate this. I want to take the pressure off of you feeling like you don't know what the hell's going on. And I'm going to try and keep this thing going because there are other people on the other side who are going to spend millions of dollars that aren't my clients and, like, try and keep it going, because the end goal, like, you need to get this done so you can buy your next house. And it's so interesting because that's really important in the moment, yet, like, you get done with it. A lot of people get done with that transaction, and then they're at a dinner party and they're talking shit about real estate, right? Yeah, they're talking shit. And it's like, wait, take yourself back five months. What would you have done without us there? You'd be calling a lawyer. They'd be charging you out the ass. They wouldn't be responsive because it's not sales.

20:38 It wouldn't get done in time. And guess what? You wouldn't be living in the house that makes your kids happy. Like, some of my clients are now living in a house that allow their kids to go to our school district. Their son is happier. He's with his friends. He's thriving. They're driving an hour and a half less every day, minimum. Right. Their life is going to be better this year for their work life, balance their travel. They have to travel a ton, right? They're going to. Both of them are going to be at the Olympics this year for, like, three or four weeks at a time. This shit needed to happen. And I'm not saying those two people are necessarily talking shit, but. But that's the thing, right? Like, you get a little further away from the transaction, and all of a sudden you're back in this bucket of. You're a realtor, you're in sales, it's judged. And that's the part that doing it kind of makes me go, okay, I get where real estate agents get a little defensive.

21:34 I can understand that. I mean, the only thing I would challenge in that is that I believe if I ever sat and talked shit about realtors, and from a perspective of my personal experience, it's because I would focus on where they fell short. And I think in what we. How we are approaching this, there's a very different. There's a big difference between somebody showing up and even if you don't have what they need. You show up in your humanity and say, I don't have this answer for you, but I'm going to get it for you. And we're going to get this to the finish line the way that you need it to. And you continue to show up consistently in that way and they still get their needs met. And all the things. I think it would be harder to sit and talk shit about your realtor.

22:29 Maybe you sit and talk shit about real estate in general, but what is feeding your personal experience, like the people that you worked with? I think it's has the ability to shift that in some way. But maybe real estate will still get put in the sales bucket. But I think when people have a lived experience that contradicts what their assumptions are, then it forces them to look at it differently. That's what Christine was talking about. She's like, I'll move your dishwasher for you. Right. So her clients don't leave her because they trust her. Her clients trust her as a resource for them to get the job done.

23:11 But those clients may still also say real estate in general has a bunch of people in it who are just vultures and do this thing. And I don't think that we can actually ever dissuade the popular notion that that exists in real estate. Well, there's truth in everything. Totally. Yeah. Do those vultures exist? Absolutely. They exist everywhere. But do they exist in real estate? Of course. You're always going to have that. So then. So then I guess selling out could be any industry. If you do it poorly, that has a high return on investment is there's a potential to have a whole group of people that are in it. They're selling out. They're just vultures.

23:55 And then there's a whole group of people that, you know, hopefully build a lot of trust and respect within that industry. And therefore selling out could be both things. I mean, I think of selling out in a lot of different ways. I was gonna say, I mean, if we're looking at the definition, I would say the common definition of selling out is you are. The perception is you're compromising what people think you are, what they think your values are. Blah, blah, blah, for money. You know, like somebody says at the end, sells out and it's because they allow Spotify to sell the music. You know. But at the end of the day, my conversations about what I. The shift that I'm making is if I lead with like, yeah, it's time to make some money. Hey, go somewhere Else fun.

24:45 Who's. What it is. He's a baller, too. That's. We're gonna have him on. That's magnotta. No shortage of words to be said. Yeah. It's really. It's our relationship with money. Yeah. I think that that's where it lives. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's everybody's relationship with money, too. Right. It's like. No. Right. I think it's. As a culture, the term sellout has a direct tie to our relationship with money. So if we are offended that somebody is choosing to do something that they know has a high likelihood of making them money, then they must be a sellout. Okay, so then are we perpetuating a problem with the term sellout or not?

25:32 Through getting into real estate by titling it that. And then maybe we have an opportunity to discuss what that means. And is there a way to rebrand that term? Like, can we rebrand sell out to mean something else? I have no idea where to go with that other than, like, it feels like an opportunity to say. Cause I have a feeling about it. Like, a feeling like, I genuinely don't feel like I'm selling out or like, I sold out. It did take me a while to get here. But the thing about it was, it's like, it's always felt inside, like, the right decision. It's the discussion about. It's the open projection of what I'm doing. That has been hard because I'm afraid of that perception, bounce back, whatever that thing is, that reflection. And I don't want to be in a defensive posture. I want to just be like, hey, that's yours.

26:34 This is mine. I'm not 100% confident that I'm always going to be able to do that. But not once during any of the transactions that happened this summer did I feel like, oh, made the wrong decision, or did I feel like, oh, man, if this one doesn't get done, the money's not going to come in. Like, I didn't really think of it that way yet. Right. Did. Were there times where I was like, okay, this is gonna. This is gonna be a revenue source for our family. It's gonna be really good. And there were parts where I was like, I hope Lauren sees a little of this, because I want you to come over with confidence. I want you to have that, like, look, if he can do it alone, we can do it together. Like, but that's like, I don't wanna build a fake facade.

27:24 I want it to be real. Right. So, like, cash and checks does help that I could poke holes in the way this all came about a million ways to Sunday if I wanted to. But everybody I talked to goes, this is how it goes, right? It's a friend, they need to do a deal. You leverage that into a testimonial. The testimonial, you know, goes on a bunch of different things. You just stay in it. You kind of keep the ball rolling. Like you just gotta kind of. This stuff works. That's one of the ninja things, is like, this stuff works just, you know, you pick away, you stay in the game. You go to open houses, you do the education stuff. That doesn't feel like it's going to lead to it. It's just like that.

28:06 You're, you're putting it out in the universe and it's coming to you if you want to be energetic about it. But the reality is, is you're just in the game. Yeah. And when you're in the game, eventually you're going to have an opportunity to score a goal. Like you can't score if you're sitting from the sidelines bitching about what the game is. You just can't. You got to get in it. I think we had that conversation the other day, right? A little bit. You called Joanna and I and we're having a talk. Let's talk about that a little bit. If you want to, we can talk about that. And then I get to ask, well. Why don't you start? And then we'll get to that. Because whatever. I think that our conversation, which was very helpful when I feel in general, but with this transition, I think when I feel nervous or scared or like what sits in fear for me is just the financial part of it. The implications in the here and now, that's right in front of me on my family. And I think the realization is that it doesn't matter if I spent the last year squirreling money away or if I did nothing.

29:18 They shift away from a 20 year career with deep network and relationships and experiences and skills and all the things. Leaving that and then having that tied to. Not only am I leaving that, but I am jumping into something that doesn't have a salary, that doesn't have like a set understanding financially of what it is, it's significant. And so do I have fear that you and I will be able to do this? No, my fear doesn't sit there. Do I have fear that this will negatively impact our personal relationship? No, I don't have that.

30:05 It always is going to swirl around the money for me, and I know the two big things in this process for me that I've been unwinding is my relationship to money and how a lot of it sits in. Well, there's a lot of fear involved in my relationship to money and actively sorting through that and unwinding myself out of that. And my, the way I relate to my work and how I understand or how I kind of like conceptualized what I do for a living with my self worth, like, what am I bringing to the world? Not self worth, like how I feel about myself necessarily, but like, what am I offering? How am I giving back? What impact am I making? And so unwinding those two things at the same time has been significant. And so then when we like reach this launching point that came a lot faster than I anticipated, you're like, you know when you go jumping off a cliff, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. And then you get to the engine, you're like, holy shit, that is way further down than I thought. So it is, it's just looking over and being like, I know, I actually know I can do that. But yeah. So your confidence is in that you know how to swim.

31:28 Yeah. You've jumped into deep water before and you know that that's down there. But the flight is a little different than you were expecting. It's a. It's the shortest part of the journey, but it's the hardest part. It's the longest. Yeah. And it's like. Yeah. Just for context, you called the other night. Joanna and I were in the car and we had a little chit chat. You said, yeah, my boss, you know, we can make this really short. Your boss, basically because you've been spending a lot of time trying to take care of your mom, who's ailing in a big way. You've spent some time away from your work. You took up all your vacation time and all of your PTO and all that.

32:10 And in that time, your boss learned that she could maybe restructure the way things go. And this is not to sound harsh, but maybe we don't need you for the three month off ramp that you anticipated. And she was like, it could be as soon as November 1st, you're looking like November 7th, looking like kind of the end of your road in your old career. And that's, you know, that's less than a month after you told them you were going to make this decision, which is the thing. You've been holding tight for a long time. And so it was a shock. And you Were like, how do you, what are we going to do? You were, you know, and I was glad to have Joanna there because she helped frame some things and we just talked about a variety of things. But in the end, we all know each other well enough to know like it's jump off, don't climb backwards down the cliff, right? Like it. Because the pain and the struggle and then the swim because you have cuts on your arms or whatever it is, it just, you know, you jump in. Yeah. It's unfortunately the likely answer. It doesn't have to be the answer or you didn't think it did, but it ended up being the answer sort of anyway.

33:23 And it creates an element where you have to face that fear, like pretty fucking directly and straight away for sure. And I think who asked me just recently, I had a friend ask like, how does Steve feel about all this? And I will continue to say overwhelmingly, the easy, fast answer is he's wildly supportive, always has been, always will be. He trusts in me and, you know, here we go. We've had lots of moments like this in our time together. The loving description of how he and I operate has always been the ready, fire, aim. And this is another example, you know, it's like, no, have we not aimed? No, that's not necessarily accurate. But in the way that this is all going to unfold, you're like, oh, okay. And having a partner who can see the realities of implications of, you know, we've got this amazing house that we built, we've got two kids that are just becoming even more expensive with what they're doing in their life, which is great. And we want to give them and all things, you know, like, you know, on paper, plenty of people, especially the generation of our parents who many of them built careers that they stayed in the Same company for 30 years, 50 years, whatever, would look at what Steve and I have done and be like, what are you two doing? You know, and that's

34:58 okay. You know, if I didn't have a partner who didn't say we got this, I think it would also feel different. Yeah, I mean, yeah, when we talk about relationships, right. We talk about like who or with. And like when you get into this thing, you know, we have a owner here, ace, who talks about it's a unique type of person who gets into a fully commission based industry. Right. That is, you don't. People don't get into this industry who don't believe in themselves. And so you could talk about selling out one way or the other, but the reality is, even the people who sell out have a quality that I admire. Whether I admire the individual, I'm not sure. I don't know them. But I know that when you get into this industry and you do it, you have a quality that I admire and that's that you have confidence in yourself. You have your confidence in your capability to perform well. Whatever the job is that you think it is, that is something that I admire in individuals who take this step. Right. I've been an entrepreneur my whole life and it always sort of tripped me out. The idea of taking a job was always like, felt. It felt, that felt like copping out for a lot of my life. Easy. It felt easy.

36:24 It's like, yeah. And it also felt unsatisfying to me. Right. To me, that's my nature. That's not actually. I can't say that there aren't a million times in my life when I've felt jealous of those people who built a resume who could take a job. I don't have one. Like there's. I don't know anybody that would hire me and if they did, I would question them honestly. Because I don't know that I can kick out the type of report that keeps me in a day to day job like that. I just don't think I'm the best person for that job, honestly. Give me a mission, a completion, like a task or I'm in. Right. But like, so I do admire people who take this chance. It is a risk and it requires a self confidence and a belief in oneself that not everybody has.

37:16 That doesn't make these people better. It's just one of the qualities in them that I admire. Yeah, no, that's true. That's fair. Okay. So speaking of, you know, one of the questions I have for you is. If I now, I probably would have already answered it. I don't. Wait. How did you feel about what your dad did for a living when you were younger? That's a good question. I've actually never, never thought about it. I don't, I don't know if. I don't know if I had a feeling about it. I mean it was always. That's so interesting. This is where when I go to my therapist, I asked her, am I a sociopath?

37:59 And she said, no, you have feelings and empathy, so you're not a sociopath. And I was like, okay, that's really good to hear. But when people ask me, yeah. People ask me about how I feel about things. And this is funny because Joanna and I talk about this a Lot. I ask her how she feels, she tells me what she thinks, and I think I can tell people how I feel. But I'm not sure if I had feelings about what my dad did. What is about it? Honestly? I'm trying to think back. Maybe this is more of that weed I smoked. I think. I think I was always sort of impressed by the amount of moving parts and that he was willing to sort of take these chances. I think there were times where I'd probably just never really processed what it really was. I think it probably messed with the way I perceive what one person is capable of. Oh, right.

39:05 Because I live in a town where my dad built 850 single family residences. I don't know anybody else who's done that. Right. Single family residences. And like, the older I get, the more into this stuff I get, I go, God, you know, he was really. He was pretty far out there in front of his. Ahead of his time, right? Oh, this is the thing from this morning from the coffee shop. Love it. Full circle. Gotta keep that part in. We were talking about hedge fund managers, people who did all these different jobs and stuff. And I'm talking with this guy who sold medical supplies and then got into the spec home industry. And you know, I'm talking to him and he's like, God, these people, you know, who knew financial planners or whatever it was. And I was like, yeah, my dad was a PhD in economics. With every job under the sun available to him on Wall street, like, you know, he easily could have been one of the. I mean, he was one of the first guys in to some of the stuff that turned into Microsoft. But he got out early, like way early. Like, was like, you guys are nuts. This stuff's never gonna work. And then boom, right? Like kind of, that kind of stuff. He has a few of those stories from way back. And I was telling this guy this morning, his name's Brooke. I was like, man, you're in a really sketchy industry and I'm really glad you've made it. Cause he does spec homes, my dad. I was like, there was a point in time where I said, why didn't you introduce me to the idea of finance,

40:36 right? Like, you had all the tools to show me what this world was like. And his answer, in so many words through behaviors also was, pretty much all of Those guys work 20 years to get what you already have, right? Like, most of those people dream of owning a ski bar at the base of like a world class ski area, living in town where their kids can walk and bike to school, ride the free bus, go skiing whenever you want. Have a network of friends that are in Bozeman, Montana and Flagstaff, Arizona and Costa Rica and Baja, right? Like, this is what they all work and dream of. We short circuited it. You don't have to go be a hedge fund manager to get that. You got it when you were 20 and you almost fucked it up, and then you got it again when you were 30 and you didn't fuck it up. And, you know, he's like. He doesn't say it in so many words, but that's basically his answer. He wouldn't let me go look at schools.

41:40 Not that I could get in, but he didn't want me to look at schools he didn't want to visit. He put lifestyle first, always. So when I think about what he did, I don't really think about it like that. I think about how he did it. What he did allowed him to get on his bike and ride across Australia for two months when I was a kid or climb mountains all over the world. Yeah, he was gone for two months at a time, and his marriage was exploded, and he was unhappy in that marriage. But he always put life way up high, right? And so I guess I didn't really think about his profession as much as I thought about, you know, we'd be sitting on the top of 10420 back before it was, you know, easy to get to, and I'm 15 or something, and we'd be sitting up there having a hot, hot chocolate, and he'd say. He'd say, God, it's so great. We pay all those people so much more to all live on top of each other and we get all this. And I didn't really get that. And I asked him, I was like, you said that a bunch. I'm not sure if I fully understand it.

42:52 The Zero people are listening to this podcast, will probably pick up on it before I have to explain it. But the point he was making is salaries are bigger in the city, right? You make a lot more money when you live in the city, but you have to live in the city in order to make it. And we're sitting here on top of a mountain and we make 20% less. And here we are, it's Wednesday at 10:30 in the morning, and we're going to go ski powder, and then we're going to go have another hot chocolate. And we might work tomorrow, we might not. And so that's what I always thought. About what to do. It's how to do a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's kind of how I. I don't know how to. Other.

43:35 I really don't know how to phrase it in terms of, like, what the job was. It's interesting. Good question, though, because I've judged what I do so much. Right. Like, I'm a bar on you. Define yourself by what you do. And I think we're both coming to this. Like, let's do this. Because it'll allow us, if we do this well. Especially if we do this really well, it'll allow us to do whatever the fuck we want, how we want. So I think that that's why the Runway feels pretty clean. You know, as long as we can get the judgment out of the way. We gotta check that continuously.

44:16 Yeah, we will. I think we will. Because we're gonna find ourselves doing some stuff too. Sometimes we're like, oh, my God. Yeah, totally. What? This. All right, you ready? Yep. I'm always ready. Try and come up with shorter answers. God's sake. Okay. You make reference, too, as recently as today, lots of people hating you. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. In our text messages. But just in general, like, you. You'll make reference to. I think that's accurate. I think there are people out there who really. I don't think that there are people that know me very well. And I don't know about hate, dislike. Have judgments of maybe whatever.

44:57 We could use whatever word we want. I don't really care. But that's probably why, right? Why? I think people are. I think many people are deeply uncomfortable with truth. I think I have some. I will perpetually be working on how to deliver truth in a way that's palatable. And some people. I think I still can hit a certain mark where the majority of people appreciate the truth and the way it's delivered. But there are some people that are just so uncomfortable with blatant honesty that they blame the individual rather than the information.

45:39 And Joanna's like, always saying, I don't know how you do it, but you tend to come away from dinner parties having told somebody to go fuck themselves. And they're like, that match is so great. You know? And what I hear is that I told somebody to go themselves. So maybe my self deprecation goes a little too far or whatever. But I tend to want to take myself down a notch because I don't really want. I would. I guess the thing I'm most fearful of is that somebody thinks that I think I'm the shit. Oh. You know, like, I really don't. That's not something I admire in other people when, like, they come across as thinking they're better than. I really struggle with that.

46:21 I think, like, hey, ma', am, pump the brakes. I don't care how much money you have. I don't care what kind of celebrity you have. So I want to make sure that people understand that I don't think that I'm better than them. And maybe I take that too far and be like, people don't like me or whatever, but I'd rather err on that side. I'm not looking for people to build me up out of it, which I could understand that being the thing like, oh, you're not that bad. You're great. That's not. That's not actually what I'm looking for. Because those things don't make me feel very good. I. It's more about the way that they perceive themselves. I don't want them to think that I think I'm better than them. Well, I think you've also referenced kind off as lacking compassion because you are direct. That's true. Yeah. You got a good memory. Good for you.

47:14 I just want to leave at the same time, but I don't know. I mean, I think that there is. I think there is a lot of truth to what you're saying and that we do live in a culture. My brain goes to talking to people who. English is not their first language. And part of what's confusing about the way that we use words in our language is that we. That's right. There is that we. We input fluff around things to create comfort or to keep away discomfort. And so I am sure I can say, not necessarily because I've experienced it from you, but I can appreciate, like, yeah, being really direct sometimes could make somebody feel like you don't have compassion for what's going on. And I think it probably depends on set and setting and relationship and how much the person trusts you. But I think part of it, too, is, like, what is your motivation for being that direct with people? Because you just don't want to fuck around because it's not worth it. Because what's the point? Yeah, probably.

48:34 I mean, I just think that. I don't think that being truthful and being direct are as far apart as people put them. Yeah, I just think. I think being truthful and being honest about what is going on, like, I don't know, you've been in therapy, you know, in that world for a long time. Like, what is the goal when you're in a session with somebody. It's to get them to be honest. It's to get them to open up about what's really going on. It's to get them to recognize what's happening in the world. It's sunny outside or it's raining or you're in a bad mood because of your whatever trauma or whatever it is. Like, stop the projection.

49:27 It's okay. Safe place. Right. Sometimes being raw allows people to be like, okay, fine. Fuck you. I'm pissed at you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Now we can talk about what happened. Yeah. But that requires trust for sure. But I. I have found that people tend to trust me more than they trust others in a lot of regards because they know that my judgment of the worst of them doesn't really. That's not what. Where it lives. They're going to get a lot more positive reinforcement from me by facing their weakness or their worst moment and dealing with it.

50:13 Then they're gonna get like, I'm not slapping anybody for how. For making mistakes. Jesus Christ. I made all of them. You know, like whatever. Made all of them as many as I can. It feels like. Right. Like tested the boundaries. So I just think. And also like, I just feel like the worst depression that I've ever felt. The worst part of my life was when I was not honest. Yeah. And so it's like I can't live there. That's like an addiction. It's such a slippery slope. Dishonesty is such a hole. And so no. I'm a flat no on that.

50:56 So it's also self serving. I think all of the things that we all do are self serving. Right. Everybody's listening to the same radio station. Wiifm. What's in it for me? That is it, man. And like when you talk about if we're getting into a sales call or a sales any situation. What is your why? Right. Like we can address openly my commission on this is gonna be crazy. We don't give up. We're a 3% commission group. That's what we do. You're gonna get all of me in it and I gotta go through hell to reduce my commission.

51:41 We gotta go through the brokerage. We gotta justify it. We gotta come up with a whole bunch of really good reasons why you think I'm not worth it. Let's get over that hump right away. This is what we get paid. I know I'm gonna make good money on your deal. Yeah. What's in this for you? Let's figure out what's going on for you. This is where my job, the conversation about me ends. And it starts. It's about you. Like we've already established. I'm in this for a commission. You're in this for a commission. Do we need to have any more of that conversation? Because this deal is not about me. It's about getting you into the house you want. It's about you selling the house. You have to go wherever the hell you need to go. Give me your whys. Let's figure it out.

52:23 Let's start on that. It's about you, like, put to bed any notions of, like, I'm doing this for me. Let's just get that out of the way early and get moving. We will have a better experience, right? We'll be able to laugh about it. We'll be able to address it. It won't be an elephant in the room. Yeah. Then when you ask me to come move your couch for you or move your dishwasher like Christine did, it's like, yeah, we already discussed that. I'm gonna make 60 grand on this deal or whatever. Yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there. Or I told you, like, you're really important to me, but not as important as my wife and kids. So if the dishwasher needs to be moved at 3:30 on a Thursday when I gotta pick up my kids, tough shit. Let's fucking hire somebody. Yeah, right. Like I'm not doing it right because we have missions right now. It needs to happen. Do I need to pay for that? Sure. Here's my credit card number. Let's go. Still get it done. Yeah, Like, I got a guy for that. So.

53:32 I just think being honest helps cut through the shit of that. Now you're not going to blame me for making up an excuse. I told you about all my shit before, Nick. Like, do you really need to move the dishwasher today? Is that a thing that you need to make you feel better? Does it need to happen in the next 72 hours before you get here? Yeah. Right. Like, don't, don't make this ridiculous. Well, and then I think that sets the playing field for requesting that of the other person requesting the same. Yeah. And if they don't. Honestly, I think Lauren, if they don't like the version you bring or they don't like the version I bring, then there's 70 agents in Christie's that we can kick them to. Totally. Well, and I will say as a self reflection, I have a lot of comfort in being straightforward and being direct and I know that there are situations where I get put on my heels a little bit and it takes me a minute to not fall into this people pleasing, caretaking family that I work on. And so I guess that is to say it is a muscle that I think I will continue to build as I find footing in a new venture. And I'll need your help.

54:57 Something. While you were talking, I was like, I think I just realized why I think people think I'm an asshole or. Good. Yes. Well, just like even in this conversation I'm like, this is fucking why. Right. And it comes across. I can, I can see how it could rub somebody the wrong way where I'm like, well, yeah, like this. Right. I think you nailed it with the lack of compassion piece because I separate the two so much. It's like the way I communicate can come across as like uncompassionate, incompassionate. And that's an interesting thing. I have to kind of like recover. And so it's, it's about building trust and then solidifying it after.

55:40 But in the moment, speaking truth to whatever it is is really critical for me to feel like we're moving forward or I'm going to be the one that's sitting there. My dad used to sit at a table and he'd have business parties, told me this. He'd. He'd be sitting at a table, conference room, and he's like seven steps ahead of the conversation. Yeah. And under his breath he'd be like, shut up, Jim. Shut up, Jim. Shut up, Jim. Shut up, Jim. You'd have to work on like, shut up. Let people get there. Yeah. And I have a little of that. I'm not nearly as bright as he is, but I have a little bit of that impatience where I'm like, okay, this is a fucking ridiculous conversation.

56:25 That's. Can we put this to bed? But people need time to get there. Well, and I always, Steve and I talk about this. Other people that I talk about this too. And sometimes it's more in the context of kids or hard relationships or whatever. But the nuance I think in there that comes into play when you are with people who you don't know as well. For me is understanding. Like if my, if my goal is for them to be able to hear me, for us to be able to very directly communicate, I also then am tasked with having enough understanding around how something can be delivered for them to hear me. And so if I'm so focused on they have to hear this, then I'm not being aware of staying in that connection so that my goal of them hearing me actually happens. And I think that's probably a bit of what you're putting in this compassion bucket, because you're like, no, I'm just going to say it this way. And maybe sometimes people think that sounds like I don't have compassion. It's like, no, maybe there's a reason that they're not hearing it the way that you want them to.

57:42 Yeah, I guess. I mean, also, the question that you asked, I'm not necessarily sure I totally believe it either. Right. That, like, people hate me or whatever. Sure. No, I. I perceive that because I feel like I know you pretty well and you care about you. And I think I perceive that as. That's an easy thing to fling in the bucket. You're like, eh, people just fucking hate me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you actually fully believe it. I think you understand the dynamic of the way that you approach things or conversations or this direct way that you communicate as uncomfortable for people, and maybe that creates some kind of experience for them that they have an opinion on, but I don't. But the lion's share, the feedback is appreciative and refreshed, frankly. And that's. But that's like a weird. Accepting gifts is weird to me. I think gifts in general are weird. But that's for another podcast. That's whatever.

58:45 Please don't send any. Please. For God's sake. The best gift you can give is nothing. Yeah, like, don't mention it. Literally. It's just gonna get added to your garage. Yeah, it's like, don't make me feel guilty about throwing the gift you gave me in the trash. Like, I don't. Because I don't actually feel guilty about it. I just feel bad for you because you wasted time. That feels a little shitty because Joanna, like, wants to give gifts and wants to do the thing, and I'm like, I don't know how to get the gift of receiving a gift from her is like the gift I can give. Oh, right. And it's just you both have probably. Done your love languages, right? Or do you. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which one is yours? Do you remember?

59:30 What are they? It's like acts of service. Hers are words of affirmation. Okay. I don't know what mine is because I don't fucking It's like, I don't want anything. Leave it alone. The next podcast is also when we have my friend Cammie, who's also my boss, who you met today, who's A therapist. And what we talk about at work a lot in the clinical model that we use is we all have survival strategies and it's a running joke, but also very vulnerable in the way that we do this dance because it's like, ugh. You know, when we. When we call it fighting, when Kimmy and I are fighting, I'm like, would you stop not trusting? Like she's trust surviving strategy. It's this whole thinking of like, nobody's gonna do it as well. Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna do it, you know, instead. Right. And then you isolate yourself and you're all alone. And then you feel, you know all the things and so that you probably would relate to more love. Languages is hard. It feels like really squishy and gooey and it's not my favorite, but I. Mean, they make sense.

1:00:36 I get it. There are seven of them. Right. And it's like, I think it's just. I think that's behavioral. Something. It's like when something is done and it's done. I know. Hers are words of affirmation. That's good. So, yeah, it's good to know that. When you're in a long term committed relationship, you might as well know these things. You need to know them. All right, so I don't know, what do you want to do here? We're at an hour and five. Oh, no. I know, I know. Okay, so how do we keep people engaged in this ridiculous conversation and ski in sellout. It's good. It is good. I think it's good.

1:01:24 Do you like the logo? I. I do like the logo. Well, now that you reminded me that it's Spotify and I pulled it up. I do like the logo. And then you also had a different picture for your episode. Yeah. Was that the pre logo? Uh huh. Yeah. No, I like the current logo for sure. Yeah, that one was cool too, but. It was a little busy for you can't really read it. This one you can see just fine. Yeah, you can see it just fine. It's like, you know, it's got a little of that Donald Trump gold in there, you know, I don't fucking care.

1:02:06 Oh my God. That could mean anything, right? Gold. All right, so keep people engaged for, you know, people that are not going to listen. I am excited for having guests on the podcast that will challenge us. I think it will be interesting. Really. Part of what I realized when we were talking with Christine, partially because of my personality, partially because I think it's engaging. What I really wanted from her, which is a Full projection and has nothing to do with her is I wanted her to tell us some insane, ridiculous, have you on the floor in stitches story.

1:02:52 And that's not what we got, which is fine. I think what we got has so much value and was interesting to overlay with where we were and our judgments and the experience in the riot of that. And honestly, what we got was probably better for me than if she would have had us on the floor laughing so hard. And so I look forward to having more guests who can show up in a way that I don't expect or tell us something that is so far out of the realm of what I would think that they would share with us in the way of learning, but also in the way of connection. And. And I will continue to come back to if anybody ever listens to this, which they won't. But I think that is what listen. The things that I like to listen to is I can connect with the humans on the show and you can have empathy or shared experience or like feel seen or whatever.

1:03:53 Yeah, we're going to talk about real estate, and more than that, we're just going to connect with people that I think will be give all those things that I think are interesting to listen to. Do you think that. Do you think that having these conversations with real estate agents in Park City who operate at this level, do you think it has impact on, like, let's just for a second say a whole bunch of them want to listen to it and like, we get the right names on it and they're like, I want to hear what Christine has to say. I want to hear what Mignotta has to say. I want to hear what Bronson Calder has to say. I want to hear. You know, they might not want to hear you and I, but they may want to hear what these people have to say in Park City. Do you think it impacts them in any way, like positively in terms of the industry, or do you think it's like just a place for entertainment? Like, what is the. I mean, it's probably all the things, but almost in the way of what is the judgment of the real estate world. Why is the sellout thing real?

1:05:01 Why is the sales bucket real? It's like something that could very easily happen is somebody goes on, somebody comes and starts talking. They are a well known name in this community, which means some people actually know them and other people have an idea or have a story they've made around them. And them showing up in their, you know, authenticity here means that other people get to say oh, shoot, I was maybe wrong about that. Or like, oh, wow, that guy's really smart. I had no idea. That would be a really. I think that, that, that would be a really. That's an optimistic outcome that I think would be really cool.

1:05:45 No, honestly, I mean, if that's, if that's something we can strive for, is to just let people understand who the people in this community are. And then, you know, hopefully, I don't know, hopefully people enjoy getting to know one person. Right? Totally. And if we can put the right people on here that people want to hear from, that that would be a good outcome. Yeah. What's the flip side? Well, I mean, we're in an election cycle. The flip side is, like, there's going to be a lot of content out there of things I say that probably eliminate me from any future office.

1:06:30 You know, like, just, I'm watching how these elections go and people use the little tidbits. And so it's a little bit of like a, we'll see how that goes. Right? Like, I mean, I'm supporting Ryan Dickey in a big way and they're trying to label him as like, development friendly. Right? And this guy's voted for conservation more times than I can count. And so I could just see them, if I ever wanted to run for office again, I could see this being a tool that they use in that realm where it's like, oh, you're propping up the real estate industry. You're propping up, like, developers. You're putting. Giving people an outlet for, you know, defending this thing. This anti growth mentality in Park City is so common, and you're propping up the antithesis of that.

1:07:24 And I guess my response to that would always be, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Right? Like, everybody lives in a development. Very straightforward. You have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, like, I'm sorry you're anti growth. But guess what? Everybody in my neighborhood is pissed that your neighborhood exists. So go fuck yourself. Right? Like, I'm sorry, that's fine. But that's the point. It's like, wait, where do you live that you get to say these other people don't get to come here. Come on. Right? Like, that shit pisses me off. So if that kills that potential, fine.

1:08:05 Right, that's fine. I genuinely would never want to run for office in a way where I wasn't authentically that. And if you can't get elected on that, fine, that's fine. I'm not tied to the outcome. But I do think this community needs to hear a little bit of that because I'm all for open space and multifamily housing and a diverse community. Most of the people who are anti growth have their $5 million home in Park Meadows. And frankly, I don't know. Maybe they should hire us and we'll sell it for them and find them a different place to live. In fact, I have an idea. I have a solution, right? Like, I want people in Park City who want to be here who think it's a great place because it is. It matches, right? And it's like, don't come here. If you are unsure about how amazing it is to live in Park City, move away and then come back.

1:09:02 Yeah, good luck. You have that experience. Yeah. There is no place like it. There's no way to replicate it. So you take the good and the bad, and it's okay. Good luck out there. Right. Good luck out there. We will help you out the door. Because I'm sure we have a line of people who want to move here, and they would love to live in Park Meadows. I would love to live in Park Meadows. I won't tell Steve. Sorry. That's our inside joke about butt dials. Sorry, butt dial. I won't tell Steve. Don't tell Joe.

1:09:45 Don't tell Joe. Oh, my God. All right, we talk too much. Okay. What are we doing for our next guest? What do you want to see out of them? Like, what. When are we doing this? Are you. Are we on the program now? Are we going to start creating some of this content? We are. It's 10 Fridays. And go 10. Okay. I'm in Mexico next Friday. Well, fuck you. But if you want any day between now and then, we can knock one out or right after. It doesn't matter. Who do you want to be in? Whoever's available. I just think any conversation works for. Us right now so people don't have to listen to us the whole time. Well, I think there might be an easy cadence of, like, do one.

1:10:27 You and I do one. Like, if we do that a little bit, we'll tighten up ours. It'll be a little shorter. We can summarize a little. We can talk about the one we did before, and then we do another one. And, like, we figure it out. And sometimes we'll do a few interviews, and sometimes we won't. But I think the idea of, like, getting together and chatting about it more regularly will create a flow. We'll get better at all of it. Put a bunch of shit out there on the Internet. Start generating some leads. Let's. You want to see if Ben Fisher wants to come talk with us? And we can talk about how we worked in the ski shop together and now he's crushing it. So there's a big. Yeah, Ben can come out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, anybody in this office will come in a heartbeat. Yeah. Those guys just walked by and saw us in here, and I guarantee they're both like, oh, no kidding. They're actually doing it.

1:11:18 Like, look at those schmucks. They'll come. They will. And we won't get a word in edgewise because the best of the best have a lot to say. So we can choose, you know, pulling back the curtain. Honestly, it's probably better for us. I don't know. I was thinking, like, putting the big names out there early generates rev. Generates interest maybe. It's like if people come on and they see Christine, Granny, they see Ben Fisher, they see Matt Mignotta, they see Molly and Rachel. Like, if they see that stuff and Molly and Rachel put it on their Instagram and it's like, boom. I mean, that is how we'll generate interest the quickest. So Sam Cubus, right? Like, these guys are ballers and they're entertaining and they all have different voices, so it's probably worthwhile.

1:12:14 I'm in Mexico next week, so we're gonna figure out a day. So sad. I'm not sad. Where are you going? The whole family. Baja. No, family boys. Oh, it's every year. Yeah, it's great. Okay, so now it's been real. It's been real. No, that's not it anymore, is it? Nope. Nope. To work on it. Sell out. We're out. Get out here. You sell out. I don't know. It's going to come to us just like that. Then somebody else will say it. First case. All right, till next time.