Episode 2 is here: The Edge of the Dive

0:11 All right, so back with episode two of Keeping It Real Estate. Can you say it with straight face? I can't say it with a straight face. And the chat. GPT decided to call this episode the Edge of the Dive. Lauren's Real Estate Leap. Oh, yeah. You know, we're letting Chad help us out. He's our. He's our producer. The first episode was really just me sitting in a room at the library talking about, you know, why I avoided real estate. I don't know. Did you listen to it? Okay. How I finally changed my mind.

0:53 Hopes and dreams for a podcast, very limited. I think actually this whole adventure is just so that you and I can have a podcast and we can shoot. The shit anytime we want with an excuse. Right. Like, this is structured shoot the shit time. Okay. Yeah. Then trying to lean into, like, storytelling, potentially. If we can get some people to come in and tell us some stories about their real estate adventures or their life adventures. I saw Andy Bierman the other day. He's down to do it. The old mayor of Park City. He's bought and sold a ton of real estate. Park City. So he'd be kind of an interesting interview, but anybody, really. Right.

1:34 Anybody who's ever bought or sold property would be kind of interesting to interview. But for today's purposes, I think we just want to kind of get into you. Perfect. I want to try and figure out. Figure out what this is going to look like for you. You have not made the leap yet. Right. So you haven't talked to your current job about the fact that you might come over to real estate. You're pretty committed inside your body, but the machination of how you get here is going to be kind of interesting or just hasn't started yet. So I guess, like, where are you right now?

2:17 Like, you're not licensed. You haven't told your current job. How does it feel to be on the edge? Do you feel? Or is the family just taking up too much time for you to actually think about it? And that's a genuine question. Right. Like, I'm. I've been trying to think about the right things to talk to you about and figure out how you're feeling. And we talk about this every time we have coffee, which we're having now. So how do you feel about it? And then you sent me a podcast last night that's all about what you think versus what you feel. So maybe what you think first, and then we'll see if I can challenge how you feel about it. No, I can do both. A. I I mean, I think part of the answer is, see all of the above. I think that yes, there is a lot of cognitive work going on around this move and why I want it to happen. And I think the. What you, like you and I have talked about it. I think what fucks with me a little bit is so much of the logistical side of this move is because we live in a town where you're going to have to hustle to get yourself ahead.

3:32 And I've worked in an industry where nobody's making a bunch of money for the past 15 years and worked my ass off and got to a place where I feel like the only step that I could do after what I'm doing right now is to open my own program. And I have no interest in that. I. We just are four years into doing that and I don't, you know, it's not something that I want to do again. And so being driven by the financial gains is new for me and it is a bit of a gut check. And, you know, my brain also can go to all the other things that are in there. It's not just about money and it's about the skill set that I've kind of refined throughout my career is very much embedded in real estate and can be a part of it. And. How'S that, how's it, how's it embedded in real estate? Because it's relational. Like what I do is really relational. And what do you do, by the way? Because nobody knows and nobody's listening. What do you do?

4:42 I work in adolescent mental health. I'm the admissions director. A. Oh yeah, that's better. Better, okay. Of a small 20 bed residential treatment center in Park City that we opened four years ago. But this has been my path. I started at a therapeutic boarding school, working like boots on the ground, direct care staff, and then moved into admissions from there. So I work with parents. I mean, I. I am very much like intertwined throughout the whole program. I know the kids, I know all the kids, I know all the parents. We're a small program, but my job is I work with educational or therapeutic consultants and parents on the front end looking at kids, histories, reading, psych testing, talking to therapists, kind of the gatekeeper. So you get to know. Yeah, you're the gatekeeper for people who need a particular thing. And so you see a correlation with that skill set into like real estate, being basically the gatekeeper into what do you need? Where do you want to be? Why do you want to be here? Get to know somebody and Then deliver for them what they need. And what you've seen in Park City, at least what you've told me is you've seen people do basically the same thing you're doing from a relationship standpoint, but 10x

6:14 the income that you make. And you're not sure about the stress or the pressure or whatever, but it feels like the consequences are sort of lower from a personal impact perspective because you're just dealing with. You're actually dealing with selling and buying things instead of trying to cure somebody's children. Child. Right. Okay. So that's. There's significant. There's a significant difference there. But the skill set seems to lend itself to what you. Yeah. And I will say, you know, as you're talking, what came to my head is part of this move, too, that I'm abundantly aware of, is I think a whole host of people, other people, could have proposed this real estate idea to me, and I would have been like, no fucking thank you. But there is a part of this that you are intertwined in that has been impactful in how my brain is thinking about this process, because I think you and I have similar views and have maybe have had a similar relationship. I mean, your familial history is far different than mine in the. In the way of development in real estate, But I think our feelings about it have been

7:44 similar. We fucking hated it forever. Yeah. It felt gross. Felt gross? Is gross a feeling? It feels like a feeling, but I'm not sure. I don't know if you would say it's a feeling, but it feels. Yeah, the way that it feels. The way you describe the feeling inside is icky. Yeah, for sure. Not genuine, not authentic. And I think that is what has been interesting for me to turn that on its edge, to say, does it have to be that way? Why does it feel that way? What haven't I liked about it? And is there space to exist in that world in a different way? And that's exciting. I think that is interesting.

8:27 And it's a way for me to approach the idea of this in a way that does feel more genuine. It feels more. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting. Like, we talk a lot about podcasts, and it's funny that we're sitting here doing this, but. But. And by the way, we'll probably reference this stuff a lot because, like, one of my thoughts for the name of this was no original thoughts. Oh. Because on the side burner. Yeah. Because maybe it's one of our taglines or something. But I just. I Don't really feel like any of these thoughts are, like, original. I just feel like people are uncomfortable saying them sometimes. Right. And then the things that we're drawn to are people who are a little bit more, like, willing to just say the thing.

9:14 Right. Whether it's, you know, podcasts about addiction or trauma, or if it's podcasts that are just funny, where people are giving each other those things jive, they make us feel good, or they. They. At least I feel like I identify with those things. Podcasts, like smartless or armchair Anonymous or let them. Right. Like that whole. All of those are totally different things, but they all play well together. And it's interesting. I had this moment the other day where I was telling my Jeff up at the restaurant about a deal that I heard about. Right. A friend of ours in Park City who we all know did a deal. He. His father got him into the business, and he's. Real estate. Yeah. He did a 28 million dollar deal the other day. Oh, baby. Right. I mean, I'm still learning how to even find how those deals happen or when they happen or whatever, but you did a $28 million deal the other day, and Jeff was on the. We were on the golf course and he just. He was like, there's nothing that's okay about that.

10:22 And I'm looking at him and I'm like, okay. I'm trying to think about how to navigate having a conversation with him, because I know I've been where he is, right? Like, I know I've been right there where I'm like, there's nothing right about, you know, a $28 million deal. He's like, what did they make, like, over a million dollars on that? I'm like, no, they didn't make that much, but it's a lot of money. I mean, they're. They're banking some, you know, do the math. Yeah. 3% on 28 million. It's more than most people have in their. In their life. Some of them. Right. People. People put that number down as their retirement number. Yeah, Right. So when people say it's not about the money, but then they're really upset when somebody does a deal like that falls. They think they fell into a deal like that. I know this agent has been doing it for, you know, his dad had been doing it for 35 or 40 years, and he's been in it for 10. Like, I have no idea how hard he worked. Yeah, I know he made a lot of money on one deal.

11:29 Was Jeff's sentiment that there's nothing. Okay. About the realtor's role in it or the whole thing? The whole thing, Right. Like, yeah, because I asked him, like, is it the realtor making a half a million dollars or is it that there's somebody buying and selling 28 million dollar houses? Right. Because there's two people on that deal. Somebody sold a $28 million house and somebody bought one. So there's, you know, three groups of people in there. And he was mad at all of them. Yeah. He's visibly frustrated with all of them. And I don't know exactly where to place that, but I also do know that I was sitting there going, well, I hope you fucking hate me in a couple of years. Because I'm hoping for. Right. Like, he's like one of my best oldest friends in the world. And I'm like, that is no shit. That's what I'm chasing. Yeah, that's what I'm chasing.

12:26 Well, I mean, okay, so two things come to my head. One is the. I don't know if this came up in that podcast, I forget. But the. It's a good challenge for me because one is the idea of a primary. Like a primary reaction or feeling and a secondary. And there's all the understanding of your secondary reaction or feeling or response or whatever. Those are usually like rage and anger. And, you know, a lot of that, I would say, for me, probably sits in that. And then if you go back and dig in and figure out what your primary is. So it's like you're playing outside with your kid and they run into the street and there's a car coming. Most as parents, most of our first reactions are going to be anger, like, get the fuck out of the street. You know, like. But what is under that is fear.

13:25 And so for sure, for me, that what that challenge is for me, because when you said $28 million, the first thing that comes into my head is my grandmother, because she would see like a big house or somebody driving a fancy car, and she would say, oh, that's so sinful. Wow. And to her, I think that relates to. Excess is unnecessary. Right. Like, there are people that. There are people in the world that have very little. And then there's this guy over here that has the $28 million house. And so for me, I think what is behind it is a little bit of that. Like, I feel that and I. There's part of me that agrees with Jeff. It's like, God, that really feels excessive and unnecessary.

14:15 Yeah. And then there's this other side And I think we all experience it if we're parents or if we're around kids or, you know, whatever of. There's a part of growth that involves accepting what's around you and understanding that you gotta play in the sandbox in some way. Right? So, like. Yeah, and I talked about that in the first episode a little. Right. I talked about it just comes to you naturally. Or at least me at this point, after serving on city council and trying to represent everybody, even people I disagree with, it really helped me become more comfortable with my judgments.

14:57 I'm not going to. I'm not about to say that I don't still have them. I still have them. They're in there. I'm not sure if I have the same relationship with them that I used to have, but they're in there. And one of those things is like, everybody. Well, like the corner store analogy, right? Like, everybody deserves the opportunity. Every human deserves the opportunity to enjoy whatever moment they're in. Right. So like, you show up in Park City and Vail's got the airport lounge feeling bar. Right. That's just what I always think of legends as. Like, I go in there, I'm like, this is like a nice airport lounge. It just, you know, they got rolled up silverware and linens and all the stuff, but you know that they're just going to gouge the living shit out of you. Yep. You know, and I just never felt great about that. That was a judgment.

15:54 So I built a bar and a restaurant that like catered to. Was not that. Yeah, it was not that. Yeah, good point. Good way to put it. But I also wanted for sure for people to feel if they came here for a day, they could sit at the bar next to, you know, Alden, who's shit faced every day at the bar, or they could sit next to somebody who is taking a day off of work to go ski some powder or something like that. And for a moment, they can feel like they live here. Right. They can be treated like they live here. And if they come back next year, the bartender's gonna kind of remember their face and be like, oh, hey, welcome back. You know, like. And if that person has a $28 million house or lives in a van and down by the river or in the parking lot, like, they deserve to have that experience.

16:44 Why am I judging them based on the thing? I don't know. I know nothing about them. Yeah. If I only knew they had a $28 million house. Yeah. I know I would treat them differently. And that sucks. So Build a place that sort of breaks all that down. Allow them to walk in and their rental gear. Right. And with their Texas handbag, whatever it is. Whatever it is. Right. But allow them to come in and tell their story at the bar, because that enriches everybody's life. Well, and do you seek that out when you're in other places? Of course. Right. That's. That's the point of building it here. Yeah. And that's always why I've defended tourism in Park City. That's why I've.

17:25 But I've felt like a hypocrite because I've judged the wealth disparity so harshly. And it's not the people's fault. They have different hopes, dreams, desires. The society begs for them to go do this. Some of them just hit the jackpot. Good job. Why am I judging them? Put them all in the same boat. Well, that's the primary. Like, that gets back to the primary. What's underneath that? Is it that we desire what they have? Is it that it makes us sad that that disparity exists and they're just. They just happen to be on the receiving end of it? I don't know. I don't know.

18:07 I actually don't know. So where mine sits. So if it's. So back to your transition. If it's not about. If it's not about the money, which is bullshit. It's about the money to a certain extent. Yeah. It's about the money for all of us. Yeah. Hence the smartest job to take in Park City when your average home price is three and a half million dollars. You're entrepreneurial in nature, you're good at relationships. You need flexibility with your life. On paper, it all just. You don't want to move towns, you don't want to leave. You don't want to go to Costa Rica and start a yoga studio. Like, I mean, some days maybe no want. And you're not going to two different things. And so you're here. Right, Right, Right, I'm here. We have deep networks.

18:56 We've made really good relationships. We've tried other careers. Right. We've been there. And frankly, we've succeeded. And we could continue to do those things, no problem. We would live a good life. Yep. It's about the money. I'm like, that's what it is. It's about the money to a certain extent. But is there a way to do it where we say, yeah, differentiate or die? And I think the thing that you and I resonated on when we started Talking about this, like, almost a year ago is like, we think we can differentiate a little bit just by kind of approaching it in a different. In this way. And it's not to say that other real estate agents aren't genuine. It's not to say that they don't bring their own thing. But the reason we feel good about potentially working together is because we kind of giggle about certain. The same kind of shit and also not tied to the outcome. Like, if somebody wants Valen and Jameson, which is a different team in our brokerage, and they're going to their house after this, they have an $18 million listing up in Promontory, you know. Yeah. I want to hang around them and see how they're doing it, because I want one of those. But I'm not sure we're going to have the same relationship with our clients, because I think that we live our lives a little bit differently, but probably not as differently as I think. Well, right. I think that is the. That is the piece that has been true for me from the beginning. And. And actually there's an overlap in what

20:26 I'm doing right now, which is if you can truly be steadfast or grounded in what you offer, who you are, what your values are, what's important to you, and you lead with that, then you allow people to take it or leave it. And if you are good with what you're leading with, you're also good with people saying, no, thanks. And I think for us, there are going to be people, people who may have a $28 million house or budget, who value that approach over something else. And I think that's what you and I are hinging on a bit in the way of. Yeah, there. There are going to be people who want an approach that other agents have that isn't as relationship driven, that isn't as connection driven, and that's okay. Does that.

21:25 Does that kind of. When you think of it that way, is that the part that kind of lights you up, makes you feel like this is gonna be good? This is like. Is that the energizing part or is that the security part? What part is that for you? I think that part is. I think that part is. Yeah, there's a. There's a stabilizing part in there for me that allows us to not have to have a dog and pony show. That doesn't feel good. This has to feel good. What I know about where I am in my life and this in my career, this became abundantly clear five to seven years ago. And what I was doing in my work where as I was in this field and people did things a certain way and programs that I worked for were run by certain personalities that I can say operated really from a place of fear.

22:27 Understandably. Right. You want to run a business that can stay open, but it drove decision making in a way that didn't feel good to me. I gained clarity on what I am okay with and what I'm not okay with. And what I came back to every time is I need to be able to show up in the way that is connected and authentic to who I am and what I believe is good in this in order for this to be sustainable. So that's kind of both, right? That's the, that's the future looks bright.

23:07 Yeah. But that also is like tapping into the fear a little, Right. Because when I hear you say I know what I like or I don't like or whatever, so what parts, right. So like the, the light you up part is being able to do any new career, any new transition in the most authentic way that you can see it through the lens of somebody who's had a lot of life experience, now has a pretty settled, settled take that lightly. Family life, right. Like stable in that, you know, you and Steve are good. Your kids are good. They're mentally squared away. Right. We're not. We both have.

23:54 We share that. Right. Like our, our family life is something that's super dependable. It's like a rock. We know we're. We know it comes first. We know that's what's going to happen. So that's like a super safe place. Even though it can be like a roller coaster ride and exhausting and all those things, it's just stable. You know, it's going to be there and it comes. But you get to go into this transition and it just happens to be that real estate's the transitional sort of end point, or it seems like it's going to be for you. It is for me at this point, right. I joke this is my last job in Park City unless I go into politics again, but this is my last job.

24:35 And with people getting shot because of political BS recently, like, this might be my last job. That's definitely more on the table now than it has been because of the way I approach things in that authentic way. And I think I could do this job forever in an authentic way and never have somebody feel like they want to kill me. Right. That's just there. People got away that shit. Right? When you have a family that's Part of the deal. Joanne even said it the other day. She's like, if we didn't have kids, I think I'd feel differently. But, you know, when people are getting smoked because of this, like, the way you go about kind of letting people have it, it's tough, right? The way you run your mouth.

25:18 Well, we'll get into that. Right. But that fear part, like, what else is scary, right, Is are you afraid that you might be doing a job that can't be done authentically? Because we don't see a lot of it. At least it doesn't feel like from our naive perspective right now with how green we are, at least collectively, we're kind of like coming at this with some judgment and some, you know, pretty rough around the edges, trying to dial it in. Maybe we're going to find some real, genuine people I can name right now that I feel like do it in that way. Yeah, but where are your fears? What's like the. It's more interpersonal.

26:05 At this place, I think I am still swimming in the soup of. My career has been based in a field that is a helping field and very outwardly helping. Right. It's very obvious. You can translate that into real estate in lots of ways, I think in the way of, like, joining somebody in their journey of moving their family, of starting a new life, of, you know, creating a second home for their grandkids to come to. You know, there's lots of stories in there. It's not as obvious, it's not as out front. And I have a lot of parts, I think, probably tied into my ego that are being pushed on in this way of. I've been really proud of what I do and my work. I've been really connected to it.

27:03 My mom is an attorney, and her whole career has been built around juvenile work and contributing to. Contributing to society. I mean, I think I've tried to get her to retire for many years because it's also taxing and it's also hard and it takes a toll and all these things. But I think the fear is not. I don't. I don't think the fear sits in. Can you and I do this? Well, that feels connected and feels authentic. I. I don't question that the fear sits in where these pieces are tied in the depth for me of my relationship with my judgments and what I. And with yourself.

27:48 Right. Like, when you look in the mirror, what does it look like? Yeah. And can the financial. The potential of financial payout or reward mitigate that? When we both know, like, we both know and feel, I would say we both know and feel that the economic rewards aren't going to fill the hole in any way, shape or form. We've both done enough therapy to know that like, that's just not gonna, that's not going to do it. It's going to be relieving in certain, certain ways. It'll also add some stress and we don't want to get caught up in it. But the reality is, is that's what we're going to be chasing. So, you know, like, how do you look in the mirror and go, well, it was a stellar year. I crushed it economically.

28:41 The people I helped basically have expendable three to $10 million purses and the people I used to help were drug addicted kids or. Right. How does that, how does that look in the mirror? And, and then. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a little bit of the funny part is that I also work in the private pay industry. That means that the, the families that I'm working with have, I mean I, I've worked with tons of families over the years that are, are mortgaging their homes or selling their houses and to save their kid, stealing to save their kid. And there's a point to that.

29:26 Like there's only so much of that that you can do. So even at that place, if you have a home to sell that will allow you these services, you are in a certain category of financial. I agree with that. That's the intellectual piece where you know that the demographic you're serving might be similar. Yep. But the outcome is a totally different thing. Yes. So the place that my brain goes and it was already clicking while you were talking is my hope. So part of this is community for me. I feel like when I moved here 20 years ago and lived in town and spent time at the library because I didn't have a computer, you know, like the cliche kind of ski bum story landed me to be more engaged in the fiber of our community.

30:24 And I think as we've physically moved further away from kind of the core of Park City and then also have had kids and have had growing careers and all the things, the time to be as engaged in our community has been taxed and that makes me sad. And my hope in part of this transition is you can't help but be more engaged in the community you're, you're getting. I. There are parts of this town where there will be real estate for sale that I haven't been in years or that I've never Been there are people doing this that I have never met that are really, you know, deeply embedded into this community.

31:13 And my hope is that with the weird schedule that realtors have to hold, it would allow me to sit on the board of some local nonprofit or have more space and time, potentially to be more engaged in our community. Which also feels good. Yeah, I mean, that's like, it's funny because, like, you kind of keep leaning into, like, I did write down some stuff and one of the, one of my next questions was like, what expectations are you carrying for the next chapter? And, and that's. That's exactly what you're talking about. It's just a natural flow to get to these places where you're like, look, all transitions are difficult, right? They are. And they're going to be iterations to it.

32:01 And we're going to get wrapped up in the real estate thing sometimes and then we're going to have a conversation like the one I described to you this morning, where, you know, I was having breakfast at my restaurant yesterday and this woman who's working in the restaurant told me about her boyfriend who died in front of her at 31 years old, had a heart attack. And then the conversation continues and she, and she divulges that her, her father hung himself 10 years ago and she found him and 10 minute or 15 minute period of time while she was gone. So like bringing life back to like right in front of you when you're wrapped up in it.

32:42 And yesterday morning I was wrapped up in it. Right. I mean, I have a few deals going and I'm trying to like, navigate this whole process and this woman tells me the story and I actually had a great day yesterday because I was like, no, I'm gonna do three important things and I'm gonna go for a walk with the dog and I'm gonna like, really enjoy what our life has to offer. And it didn't mean I dropped the ball. Yep. I just let the pressure release valve because somebody brought some perspective to it. And frankly, hopefully, like, yeah, man, I joined a board. Right. Like, I'm still staying engaged. I'm gonna be on the education foundation board, which kind of regret it right after I got on If you didn't say that, it's a. Bunch of, you know, it's like I, I have some judgments about what that's going to be, but then I'll just dive in and we'll figure it out. Right.

33:39 It's like, whatever. But you're right, you'll probably have some freedom that you don't currently have. You have some pressures you don't currently have. There's a risk for sure. But do you have expectations? Like, do you. Like, when you tell yourself the story of 18 months from now, what is it? Does it feel really blurry? Or do you have some clarity to, like, you know what, in 18 months, I will be, you know, firmly entrenched in this new thing? Or are you like, holy shit, this thing feels like it's taking longer than I wanted it to. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable, like, what's going on? I think.

34:22 I think it's a little bit of both. So if I reflect on the idea of transitions, it's crazy to think about, like, a year into starting this program, two years in, I couldn't ever fathom doing anything but what I was doing. And part of that is we worked so hard to get that program to where it is literal. Blood, sweat and tears. You know, we were all working graves. We were working the floor. We were also working our jobs. My family sold our house, and we were really in transition and also managing, building a house and all this crazy stuff. It was a pressure cooker.

35:05 And there's part of me that I have gotten really comfortable with and appreciate in a different way that. That looks at pressure more as a privilege because I operate well in it. I need it. You know, when I was a kid, it was. You know, my mom would call it procrastination because I would. That's what I would do. But then when the pressure was enough, I could fucking knock it out of the park. And flipping. That relationship has been important. So I think that I don't necessarily have a clear vision of what 18 months will look like or what I want it to look like.

35:49 But what I do know in terms of the scaffolding is that the risk, the financial risk, the weight of the financial risk is there. I can feel it. And there's part of that that I appreciate because that is the pressure. For me, being able to sit in the fear is good. Fear and excitement, right? Because, like, it sounds to me like the pressure to you, because you have a lot of history of performing under pressure kind of validates, like, right, you're kind of gone, oh, shit, here we go. But at the same time, you're like, here we go. Yeah, this is it, right? This is the. This is the thing. And you get to look at it through the lens of, like, okay, the people who commit and do it, crush it. There are not people.

36:51 They're. They're genuinely are not people who commit, like really commit and do it and don't do well, not around here. It is, you know, you can. It's Swiss cheese. You can see the holes in the people who are not successful. It is so clear. Yeah, I know you don't that concept for me and you've talked about it a lot and I. I buy in. I see it. I mean, the open house with the pile of dog poop on the sidewalk is such a great real experience and just our experience in general with that and the self doubt that I feel in that moment is complicated because I don't. I think I.

37:42 What I know about myself and what I think is I value maybe is like I can hustle. I've hustled since I was 14. I've worked my whole life and I believe in myself to figure it out. But because this is so new and I don't have experience, there is doubt that comes in. Like if you were to say, okay, you're going to start this new job in this field that you're in, you don't know anything about the company, but they seem like good people. Go do this. I'd be like, I'll be fine. I can do this easily. This is so new and so different that I know I can hustle and I know I can figure it out, but I can't. It's so blurry that I can't even get the view.

38:35 So in 18 months, we need to talk again and have this conversation and say, all right, what came, you know, what lines did you color in? And overall, I can say I trust in you and I. And I trust in myself and I trust in like the ability to figure it out. And with the guideposts of. I want to be able to use my skills in these ways that are important. I want to figure out a way to be more engaged in the community. I want to figure out a way for other people to have a different relationship with buying and selling a house or with who a realtor is in general. Yeah, I don't have any doubt that that can happen. It is just a big fat new world that feels. Yeah, this is having been going through it the last 18 months to two years, you know, it's like a full identity shift. There are so many things that I said I wouldn't do that I do now. There are. I mean, it's, it is, it is such a. It's. It's a really unique experience to go through this. I think, you know, career changes are ubiquitous. People make Them all the time. Right. But when it comes with what you feel needs to be an identity shift because of how much you have to market yourself, that balance has been really

40:08 difficult. I'm not gonna lie. That's like a. That's a really challenging thing to, like, tell people. I mean, two years in and I'm still dancing around saying I'm a real estate agent. It's, like, hard to say it right now. Right. It's like. It's such a weird thing. And that's. That's my judgment. That's my judgment. That's not theirs. That's me telling them. Telling a story about what I think they think because of how deeply it was. Oh, that is ingrained in me. Right. That is. What you just said, though, is the important part. It's not what you think, it's what you think they think. Yeah, exactly. And I think. I mean, look, we all live in that world, right? Like, we behave. Most of our behavior is because of what we think somebody else thinks. Like, that's just the reality. And ideally, we get to a place where we just can put that aside. And like, I said to you a couple times, one of our. Another agent in town said to me at a. At an open house, he was like. I was like, how. How are you doing with this? He's on a transportation company. He's done a bunch of different stuff, but he seems like a pretty chill guy. And I don't know him very well, but he was like, what do you mean? I was like, do you like real estate? And he goes, oh, I love it. And I was like, really? What's.

41:28 What's. He's like, I'm selling other people's stuff. It's not mine. Right, Right. It's not. He's like, I mean, that's such a. It doesn't mean that you don't care about it. Yeah, right. It doesn't mean you don't want the outcome to be good for those people, but it is not yours. I'm not selling my house, and I'm not buying my house. Yep. So, like, yeah, that is the definition of not being tied to the outcome, but being in it for the process. What do you want? You like pink? I'll find you some pink. Yeah, it has. A good friend of mine, used to be a painter, and I would ask him, hey, can you paint this? You know, room for me? Or whatever? And he'd come in. I'm like, what do you think of this color? He's like, I don't pick colors. I'm out. I'm here to put the color on the wall.

42:17 That's it. And separating yourself from it is so important to just allowing it not to be your identity. It's just what we're gonna do, and then be proud of how we do it. So my reflection is I have a lot of room to grow in. That's such a long road that I could go down, but I'm gonna try and condense it. I have a lot of room to grow. And this is what I've thought about even as I have really been on the periphery and understanding with you and I having coffee and the things that you're working on and the process and me having a faraway view of the clients that you have. My growth will come in not inserting my desire for people to be happy in the way that I, in my brain somewhere, have decided they want in. How I interact with their experience of buying or selling a house. Let them. Right?

43:23 Totally. Yeah. But this is so the quick, deep hole is what I know through my work is I have really done a masterful job of refining this skill of I can sit in a room, and this was like. If you go through all the clinical stuff that I know from my job, this was what certain areas would call, like, a survival strategy. We all have survival strategies. We're raised in environments by imperfect humans. We're trying to figure out how to keep connected to our caregiver. And what I know is that I'm really good at reading a room and being like, he needs this, and she needs this, and they need that. Because I will keep the peace. I will make sure everybody is taken care of to keep the harmony.

44:17 And it's a good skill. I appreciate the skill. The hard part that I have worked on over the past 10 years or whatever is what do I need? What do I want? How do I ask for that? How do I communicate that? And that was a hard process for me because I can do this external stuff really well. So what has come up for me in recent years and in reflection on transitioning to a new environment is how do I hone in on. Yeah, that as a skill of being able to know you as my client. Take piece out what you're saying, because sometimes people aren't able to be super clear, piece out what you're saying is important to you, and just let that be and not try to be like, oh, she's saying this, but I think it really is in this thing. And it's because she wants this. And then I'm going to read between the lines and get way over here and I just got to let this be and not work harder.

45:24 Yeah. There's. There's so much to what you're saying there that's like. That's going to be a perpetual growth pattern. Right. That every interaction is going to be somebody asking you to not do that. Right? It is. It's. Whether it's with me or clients or title companies or transaction coordinators or other, you know, other agents where you're like, God, they're doing the, you know, like, all of it plays into that discipline, so to speak. And where's the line? Like that human connection. There is a part of this where it might be like, you and I connect in the morning.

46:06 We're both all over the place because our kids are wild and it's. We're trying to get back to school and all these things. And I know that you start your day off with a cup of coffee, and that hasn't happened yet. And I can figure it out from our conversation, and I'm going to grab a cup of coffee and bring it to you. Those things are great. They're appreciated. I appreciate them. As in relationship with people. And then where do you know where that line is? Stops and where does it stop? Yeah, where you're feeding you versus everybody else. Especially in an industry that's like. This is a service industry, right? Totally. I mean, that's what it is. We're supposed to read between the lines and try and deliver somebody to an outcome that they've either stated they like or they want.

46:51 You wrote it down, Right. And you're on this track, and then they stated they want something different. Happens every showing every house. I need this much parking. I need this many bedrooms. It needs to be under. This has happened to me on every deal so far. Except for your parents. Really? Yeah. My budget is X. The house that's closing on Monday, they are paying almost two times what their original budget was. Just shy of two times what their original budget was. And how do you navigate that? It's really hard. Right. I've been in the seat of.

47:34 We very clearly state our. The first experience we had in real estate in Park City was we'd never bought anything. It felt pukey. Yeah. And I remember the realtor being like. And we. From the beginning, we were like, this is what we can afford, not $25,000 more. That is the very top. And, like, the first house that we fell in love with, it was like, you got to bring your greatest and best or whatever the hell the term is, because there's other people interested. And we were like, we told you exactly what we could do. Don't be an asshole. Yeah. You know, but then there are people who don't tell you that, don't tell you that. And so most don't. And that's where.

48:20 And also, like, you might find a property that's the asking price is above, but you're going to land below. So then your search has to include it. And then you're risking looking like an asshole for putting somebody in love with a house they can't afford. And so navigating how to get to people's financial bottom line is really difficult. And it has to do with your mortgage lenders, it has to do with whether there is contingent, other properties to be sold. That's where, you know, this is the part where it's not about the money does come into play. Right. The bigger the number, the less it matters. Right.

49:04 Like their range up there north of $10 million is crazy. Right. You can show them 13 million, you just can. Right. Because they're gonna figure it out. They have $10 million to spend. 10, you've got 13. But if you have 700 grand, you don't have 750. Right. That difference is all of it. That's all the furniture for their house. That's all of it. Yeah. So that's why, like, straight up, like, to make things easier, the chase is that big stuff because, yeah, we're going to have to put money out to get that thing marketed and we're going to be competing with the best of the best. But like, at the end of the day, some of those nuances that are really difficult go away. And that's been part of my transition to this residential stuff. Is the nuances in commercial really difficult?

50:03 Right. The bigger the deal in commercial, the more nuanced it gets. Not the less, it's way more complicated. Okay, yeah, let's do residential small scale. That's where you start. Right. I get it. Let's get some reps, let's make sure we understand these things. But, yeah, I mean, you're, you're, you're hitting the nail on the head if you, you know, with all of this, like, because we've been talking for 50 minutes, let's say five years from now, you're looking back and you're going, I mean, you and I have Talked about what 10 years from now looks like, right? Yep. But for you personally, you're looking in the mirror five years from now. And, you know, what is. What does success look like to you?

50:46 Is it, you know, is it. We talk about the financial. We talk about looking in the mirror, and we talk about the service. We talk about. So, you know, is it. I've served on three or four boards. I look in the mirror and I go, you know what? I learned a new industry and I crush it still. And my skill sets did translate. I'm able to still feed these, you know, this family. You know, what does success look like for you? Because I know what it looks like for me, and I haven't expressed it yet, but we'll get there today. No. Okay. If you need it. I mean, shit, I don't know. It changes. Let's do it every time. We'll see what happens. Yeah, yeah. Ask me in two years. So I would say there are the obvious ones. Success looks like I have entered this new career in a way that stays in my integrity and has impact in my community where I have chosen to stay. So, like the Costa Rica thing, I am a gypsy at heart that if Steve came to me tomorrow and said something wild, which he wouldn't, I'd be like, I'm in. And there is part of me that is understanding there's goodness in my gypsy, and there's part of me that is understanding what that also does in the way of my discomfort and dealing with it. Right.

52:13 So five years says I am committing to this community and in this new career path. I have been able to make impact both in the world of real estate and how people can experience buying and selling homes in our town, but then also impact in. Yeah, I've at least been on one board and been able to contribute my time and energy in a way that feeds your soul. Resources in a way that feels important. Yeah, yeah. That feels like I'm contributing. Yes. Financially. My. What would be successful in five years is that I've been able to make an impact on mine and my family's financial landscape. That has given us a bit of breathing room that I feel like is needed right now, but also can contribute to the big picture. Right. Like you and I have talked about, travel is really important to me. What do you need for travel? Time and money feeds the gypsy, feeds my gypsy in a healthy way. Money can feed the gypsy for sure. And I mean, my work schedule right now is far more flexible than most people, and I want more. And there's part of real estate that I know that you have to.

53:37 You have to be able to do it when you have to do it. And Having control of like, you know, my kid has a performance at school and you know, those things I can do now too. And that want, I want that to continue and even maybe some more so where it's possible. So I don't have like a financial number, but I know where I am now. And my goal in five years is that it's above, like decently above. I think more in a year and a half. Yeah, but that's, you know, like I. And maybe I'm unrealistic in this, but I don't think I am. You know, I just don't think that I made the transition to residential real estate six months ago. Ish. And by the end of July, if I was just. If we were together by the end of July, you'd be. And we split everything you just based on what I've done this first part of the year, you would be halfway to your financial goal already. And we're six months in. So there's an element of like we're gonna figure it out.

54:56 There's risk. I get what you're saying, but I think you should set your sights higher on the financial stuff so that you can set your sights higher on the gypsy stuff. Right. Like I think they play together well. And we talk about these things like 10x is easier than 2x and all this stuff. And that plays for your emotional well being, your mental well being, your physical well being and your financial well being. And if, if we're chasing all of those great. If we're chasing one of them, we're going to be out of balance. Like there's this, I do a, like a self reading thing that's like, it talks about, you know, your life is like an orchestra and all the different parts need to play well together in order for it to sound good. If one of them is out of balance, the orchestra doesn't sound very good. And so if you're over on something, if the drum is too loud, you can't hear the violin.

55:53 And so it has to have balance. So when you start talking about. I talk about 10x is easier than 2x a lot. Because one of its main things is start with 150 days a year off. Right. So my calendar wants to be out 180 days a year off. That's not weekdays, it's just, that's the whole year. Right. And if you, if you really break it down, your weekends and your holidays and your stuff like that, if you do it, you're not asking for that much. That's one of the Reasons why partnership is so good. Because we can say to each other, look, open house on Saturday. Right? Like, hopefully we're busy enough to have multiples and we're doing that and we can pay people to do those and stuff like that. That's great. But in the short term, it's like you're on this weekend a month, vice versa. Or we, we split time. When I'm alone, it feels like I need to make sure that I'm available. So that's where partnerships are. Great. But I think that your sites are probably. I mean, I think it's good to be conservative in nature. Right. I just do. I think that's good. What it tells me though, is that the fear is real. Yeah. Well, the fear is real.

57:09 And I do think. Or I know. And I think you and I have talked about it a little bit too. I recognize my relationship with money. I mean, Steve will talk about when we were first dating and we lived in our little bitty one bedroom apartment on little Bessie. He still gives me shit about this today. And we had this conversation where he was talking about his aspirations for his career and all these things. And like, indignantly, I was like, I never want to make a hundred thousand dollars. That's so unnecessary. It's so, you know, just above what needs to happen. And he was like, what? He probably was like, ah, shit.

57:56 Yeah. He's like, I'm gonna have to make twice what I thought. This is great. And part of it. There's so many, like, tentacles of that. But part of it was I grew up in this funny little town in Ohio that had families with deep family money. Yeah. And my view of that. And I was like, didn't feel good. Yeah, no thanks. And that, I mean, that was the example that I gave to him. And he was like, well, you know, you don't have to do that. But. So I know that there's funky hiccups in my relationship with money and it's shifting. And part of why it's shifting is because I'm in a family and I want things for my family.

58:39 Yeah. And I want my relationship to time to be different. And a really obvious path to that is to take the pressure valve off. I think that we're gonna. This will be a theme for us throughout. This whole thing is just like the financial piece. Right. That's why I like our little tagline. It's not about the money with a question mark. Because. Right. It is and it isn't. And it's all these things. And like, we have this sort of idealistic piece. I think we have a problem because we both are the gypsies in our family, which is going to be a thing we have to navigate. We have to have Joe and Steve on at the same time. Right? Yeah. We got to get them in here. I will say it's not about the money. Question mark. Yeah. Each of us.

59:26 Yeah. A million dollars in one year is my five year goal total, like so.2 million net. That's just, you know, I know that sounds really fucked up to say, but. But that's what I see the best doing. Yeah. And I'm not really in this, like, I know comparison is the thief of joy, Right. But this is a competitive industry. It is a part of the game. And when you say, and we say we'd like to try and bring a particular thing to it, we'd like to do it a little differently. We'd like to, you know, that's competition. That's us saying, you know, relative to other people. This is how we differentiate.

1:00:09 And we think that there's something in there where people that, you know, maybe we're naive and we don't know, but we think there's something that's missing and we want to try and provide it. And there's nothing wrong with that, but there's a competitive element of that. And as much as I'd like to say I'm not that competitive. I am in some regards, but. But it's really a competition with myself. Like, can I get to that level? Can I, can I find people? Can we find people who do deals at that level that have this ideology? Can we find them? Is there an abundance, Are there an abundance of those people? Because, man, I would like to find them. Right? I really would. I would like to find the people who have that ideology that have that kind of cash.

1:00:55 Am I convinced that they're going to be out there? I'm not sure if they listen to this, are they going to want to use us? I don't know. Maybe. Right. And if not, there's plenty of options for them. And that's fine if it takes us a little longer to get there that way. But that's my five year thing is like, look, I get it, it's going to take a minute. I want to build these foundations. The reason we're doing this isn't because anybody's going to listen to it. It's because it puts another tentacle out there into the world where we might get a lead and then maybe somebody will listen to it. And if they do. And the other thing is we're going to have guests on who teach us things. We're going to learn about ourselves, we're going to learn about the industry, we're going to learn about their opinions of it, and it's all going to feed us in our quest to be great. Yeah.

1:01:43 You know, I think part of the five year for me too, though, is our relationship and the way that we get to experience this growth. I mean. Yeah. I mean, part of someday what we'll get to talk about too on here is our relationship goes, I met you the first year I moved here 20 years ago, and I deeply love your family. And what I have taken away from my current job and starting a program with people that I care for and have a lot of respect for and can have hard conversations with and can do that together is I also know that I don't want to. I don't want to do anything else. Right. Like, I value that. And what that brings is the ability to do the hard things. Like, you and I are going to have moments that are hard. We're going to have deals that are hard. We're going to have experiences where we kind of get slapped in the face and we have to be. We gotta figure it out.

1:02:52 And being able to do that with somebody who I have care and respect for is exciting. And I'm excited to see where our growth is in five years as friends and as families, because our families are gonna be involved. They have to experience all this. They have to be a part of it, regardless of whether we want that to be real or not. Like, it's not possible. Right. You can't keep your. You can't keep them totally separate. And to be able to build something that is good and we feel connected to and making impact and making money. Yeah. Well, I think that's a success for me. It's really interesting too.

1:03:37 Like, will do this and what this forces is the thing that we probably are pretty good at anyway, which is just like talking about the hard shit. But what these mics do and what these headsets do and what this sort of the structure does is it kind of requires us to ask each other those questions like therapy does. And I think it'll help when those tough moments happen. It'll help us reflect on it in a really healthy way. And so we're using this. This is. This is definitely selfish. Right. This is a thing that's like. I mean, even in this conversation, like we were talking before we got on it, you know, started the mics up and stuff. But it feels pretty natural. Feels like it flows just fine. You know, it's not the exact conversation we would have over coffee, but it's pretty darn close. And I think it'll help us, like, along the way hit those hard parts and we'll be like, you know what this is feeling. Maybe we'll get into that today. Right. Like, if we have a conflict or we have a problem or something, let's just fucking get into it. Right. Like, let's figure it out.

1:04:44 I think it'll. It just forces us to, like, touch it when otherwise we might just bury it. Yeah. Because that's human nature. Right. And I think that an evident evidence of that is that, like, you're here and. Yeah. I didn't really tell you. I mean, you kind of knew we were going to do this today, but like. And we're not posting this yet. Like, we're going to talk about how to put these episodes out there and when they go out there and stuff. But it's still, like, kind of bold to be able to talk about something before. I mean, you're in a. You're in a really unique spot, Right. You haven't told your other job that you're leaving. You're deeply connected to that job. You're deeply connected to the people in that job. You're here exploring this in a pretty open way, you know, like, have you.

1:05:32 Have you told anybody other than Steve that you might be doing this? A few close friends. Yeah. And so that is something that comes up too, for me right now that feels really hard and almost inauthentic is that I haven't had the conversations at work. Yeah. It's really like giving me heartburn. Yeah. I imagine that's like. That's like being in a relationship with the person, you know you're going to break up with. Right. That is, you know, it's coming. You care about them, all those things. And I think people can identify with that. That's not like how people quit their job is a deeply emotional and.

1:06:12 Well, and it's protective because, let's be honest, I need the paycheck right now. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, there's. Yeah. I mean, there. There are all those elements, Right. Like that I would. I would equate that to, I need the place to live. Right. We're sharing a house. I don't have a fucking way to go pay rent and do this thing. I'm staying in a relationship for this other reason too. Right. There are so many avenues to it. But it's like, you're here, you're doing the work ahead of time so that when it happens, you will have done more work to get there than most people do, because sometimes the band aid just gets ripped off and you're just like, holy shit. Then you're pissing in the wind, living in a tent or truck or whatever, which we've both done. So, you know, like, it. It's. It's a thing.

1:06:57 So it's. It's. It's good to be here. You're doing the right thing, I think, and you're not overly committed. Like, you might still be a part of this if you don't make that change. Right? Like, we might still do this, but I think you're gonna make it. I think you are. I just. When I said you're gonna make a million dollars in five years, you're like, fuck, yeah, I need to start quitting. Get real scared and just make it happen. But, yeah, you're in an in between moment, and sort of in between. You're in between in you. But not hourly yet. Yeah. Which my reflection on that, too, is that I haven't been there. I haven't changed careers. Yeah, you. You haven't done that yet. So this is a.

1:07:42 I've changed jobs, but my skillset was. It was, you know, kind of the same deal. You'll have to be really open with me about how, like, if I'm blind to that sometime or insensitive to it, like, we'll need to talk about that. Right. Because you're gonna have moments that are difficult, and I'm not gonna read it. Right. I'm gonna be like, dude, we need to get this thing done or whatever. Or, where were you? Or whatever. Like, those moments are gonna need to. Yeah. Like, that's gonna need to be a thing that we navigate. Right. In a healthy way. Because some of this feels like it's under a pressure cooker, but it's not. Hmm. Just enjoy the process. Right. Remember the story of my employee lost two people in front of her. Right? Like, just keep this shit in perspective. It's really important. Right.

1:08:32 And I get the financial piece is going to be a big deal, and hopefully we can set this up in a way where you're like, you know what? There's enough in the hopper. I know you've mentioned, like, you're really uncomfortable with the idea of coming in and taking half of whatever it is. Uncomfortable. I totally get it. And the only way that I can say that and I don't know if this will be the way that I say it every time is, don't worry, I'll get I'm coming for you. Yeah, okay. There will be a time. Right? But, like, that's not. It won't happen, like, vindictively. It's just shit is going to happen in our lives over the next five to 10 years where we're gonna say to each other, like, dude, I need you to step up big right now. Like, I'm out for a minute. We're gonna have parents who pass. We're gonna have. There's so many things.

1:09:28 That's what partnerships are all about. And so, like, I can't say more genuinely than I say it. Like, this part, it's not about the money, right? Like, what you're giving to me is worth every fucking penny because I will be getting time back. Not right away, right? Like, you're going to be coming up and learning, and there's going to be a lot of questions, and, like, you have to come on as, like, an assistant, Like a licensed assistant, which is going to be kind of a weird. We'll have that conversation, too. Right? But just the title, and then there's the learning, and then there's the, you know, the getting good at it, and then there's the piece where you fully embrace it, and then all of that. But, like, just, like, you have faith, and the reason you're doing it with me is same.

1:10:17 Like, I don't want a different partner that has. Like, now that I've contemplated having you as a partner, like, there isn't anybody else out there, right? Like, I've contemplated Jake, my cousin, he's our broker, 27 years of experience. Like, come on. Right? Nope. Rather it be you. Right? Like, that's a nice compliment. Next. Jonathan had him as a partner. He's really good. He's got all these different skill set. Like, nope, I'd rather be. You work with Molly and Rachel. They're killing it. Killing it. I'd rather work with you. Matt Mignotta, probably the top guy in Park City. If not one or two or three, you know, there's definitely an opportunity for me to work on his team. No, I'd rather do it this way. Right? And it takes discipline to, like, say no to things. But that's because I know. I have faith. It's like, that we talk about thoughts versus feelings. It's a feeling. It's like, oh, yeah, this is right.

1:11:24 And that's not to put pressure on you, but that's just the genuine like, oh, no, I know this is. Right. This is like both the thoughts and the feelings work together. And it's like, this is gonna be good. It's gonna take some time, but it's gonna be good. And, like, you know, it's not about the money, but I was talking to Joanne about it the other day. On the gross side, I have, like, $175,000 worth of commissions coming in the next six weeks. Right? Yeah. So that's the. That's the gross. Right. And you pay the brokerage, you pay all the things, but it still nets out at like, a hundred grand. Yep. I've been doing it six months. Hot diggity.

1:12:06 Fucking suck at it. No. Okay. This is. This came up that I didn't say it last time, but. Or when you were talking about it, but that is being able to witness you, as you say, suck at it with my parents is. And part of this, I'm sure, is entangled in my relationship with how I feel about real estate, blah, blah, blah. But. And I think I told you this, but I think part of what we're doing is. What's your phrase? Correct. Don't protect. Yeah. You are so committed to that, and I appreciate that. And I agree with that approach and that. Yeah. You're learning. I'm learning.

1:12:51 It's going to be. Things are not going to go the way that we predict. Sometimes we feel like we're going to be able to think that we're doing everything the way we're supposed to, and then something's going to blow up. All those things are going to happen. But having the foundation of relationship between the two of us, but then also between the clients and us, that they can expect that we will show up in the relationship that way instead of trying to hide things that didn't go wrong. Yeah. It's like, if we blow it, there. Are going to be people that say, no, thank you to that. Totally. I hope so, though. Right. Like, it's weird to say in the real, like, you want all deals. I don't want all deals. I don't.

1:13:38 I want to work. Yeah. In a way that will allow me to be the best version of me. And if I'm the best version of me, I don't care how long you've been doing it, I'm gonna get your deal done. You are gonna get that deal done at the highest level. Are we gonna miss occasionally? Sure. But every deal is gonna get our honest effort. And I think we've done enough other jobs to say, like, yeah, I Mean, yeah. I'm not half assing doing the dishes. It's gonna be clean as a whistle when you get it on the table. It just is. Like, I'm not in a rush.

1:14:19 I'm not tied to the outcome. I want you to get the best deal you can get. And I'm gonna be honest with you. If that's not the deal you think it's supposed to be like. Yeah, and you're right. People aren't gonna like that sometimes. That's okay. There are plenty of the other. Right. There are plenty of people out there who are going to tell you all the things you want to hear that. If you want me to, I can tell you that. But it's going to come with, like, I'm full of shit face on, you know? Right. It just is. Hold on, let me put my. Let me put my hand full of shit phase on. All right, you have to go to Promontory. I'm not gonna make it. It's fine.

1:15:01 We're filming. We're filming today at the house. It's fine. What time is it? 9:24. How about that? Right? Damn. Yeah, we crushed it. We crushed it. No, no, it was this one. Oh, yeah. Okay. That one was for dick jokes. Yeah. Okay. No dick jokes today. Not today. One episode without dick jokes. We saved them for the next. All right, let's see. So when I was saying last time, oh, yeah, it's been real. That's it. That's the sign off. Not peace and love. Fuck that. It's been real. I care about you, Max. Yeah, but it's been real. That's good.

1:15:44 That's it. All right. Let me see if I can figure out how to stop this whole thing. Okay, so it's been real. Lauren, we'll see you in three weeks. Three weeks? You're leaving? Oh, yeah. You're gone. I am gone. Right. For three weeks. Okay, in three weeks, we're doing another one and we're going to interview somebody. Oh, do you have time? Does that sound okay? No. Figure it out the day before. We're going to be fine. I like it. That's how we keep it real. Surprise. All right,