The Humble High Performer: Inside the Mind of Matt Magnotta

0:11 All right. The way we usually start these things is just by shooting the breeze, so that's what we're doing. We're here with Matt Magnotta on Ski in Sellout, and we looked you up. Lauren looked you up. So we'll do a little bit of an intro, which is that you're basically, you moved to Park City, like, 25 years ago. You started 15. 15 years ago, 2010. Holy smokes. So you really. You're sort of like a rocket ship here in town for the real estate adventure because you have climbed your way to, you know, one of, if not the most successful real estate agents in Park City.

0:53 And. And for good reason. But that's not where you started. You started, you know, scratching and clawing. You and I have talked about that a little bit. A lot of times. What we talk about in on this podcast is. Well, we've started by talking about the name because it changed from keeping it real estate, which is cheesy and lame. And we got rid of that one. Cheese cells. That's okay. Cheese cells. That's true. But it doesn't smell good, so. Which we couldn't. We never could. That's a good sign that you get the wrong name. Yeah, you can't do that. And then the first guest we had with the name Ski and Sellout was Jake.

1:33 Jake Doyle Knee, our broker, and he had a little bit of a tough. He was a little offended right out of the gate at the sellout because Ski and I, you know, Jake and I grew up ski racing, and we. We've talked about that as a thing. I think there's a lot of ways to interpret it. My initial reaction is it could be a negative, right? Like the town or all of us are selling out to make money and ruining the fabric of this town. But I don't see it that way. I think it's more a commentary on. We're a ski town, and the real estate industry is a huge driver of this town, and you have to sell things in the real estate industry. So I didn't take it the negative way.

2:19 We have also had the conversation about, you know, real estate agents are sort of. Somebody equated them to lawyers, right? Like, there's a lot of jokes about lawyers, too, until you need one. And then once you need them, they're like, they're your first, second, and third call every day, and it's. And they're critical, and. But then as soon as you're closed, you're like, God, they made a lot of money for nothing. And And I think that's part of what we're doing here, is inviting the best agents in town, maybe some of the most popular agents, people who are coming up making transitions in their life to talk about, like, what does that let people get to know you a little bit now? We always joked nobody was listening.

3:03 Lauren's husband Steve said, you have to stop that, because I'm listening and I'm looking forward to the next episode. So we have a listener. And on Smart List, they always. They always do, like the. And for the listener, like, singular. So we're working that angle. You gotta start somewhere. Okay. Before you do a deep dive. Yeah. Questions? I have a desire on the other side of what this whole podcast is about, which is like, I want to know, where'd you grow up? What's your family like then? Yeah, I mean, had a long journey to get here. So. I grew up in eastern Pennsylvania in the Poconos. So the hills of the Poconos to the mountains of Park City. Grew up skiing at Camelback Mountain, Elk Mountain, in Montage. So loud powder.

3:56 Thousand feet of vertical at most so tiny resorts. I was the only one in my family whose feedback. Oh, really? I would go on the Friday night bus. Cause we night skied back east. I'd get on the bus on Friday afternoons and I go with the ski club. And then I'd go on Saturdays as well, as much as I could. I grew up watching Hot Dog, the movie. Absolutely loved it. You know, one of the great movies of all time. Which ultimately I moved to Squaw Valley because of that, or the Palisades, as they now call it. But grew up in eastern Pennsylvania. I went to Villanova for college. I played some college golf. When I got out of college, I moved to Florida to get into the golf industry. Was there in Central Florida, Orlando, for three years.

4:47 Certainly not where I wanted to live. Dreamed of moving to a ski town. So in 1999, I moved out to Truckee, California, and started working in the golf business in the summer and then taught skiing at Squaw Valley in the winter. And that lasted for about six years. I was a head pro at a golf course. About 30 minutes. Two courses about 30 minutes north of Truckee. And then. And then in 2006, I got out of the golf business. Just wasn't my forever path. And I ended up joining the developer sales team for one of the clubs that I was the head golf professional at. You know, at that point, I was recruited into that position because I'm used to dealing with the customer the buyer, you know, they're my members and so I'm comfortable with that group understood the amenities, knew how to build value in those and the lifestyle the developer was creating.

5:52 And so it was a pretty seamless transition into sales. I was honestly horrified of getting into sales because I'm just not a self promoter. I like to say I'm a bass player in the band of life. I like to be kind of in the background doing my thing. But I was recruited into sales by a guy named Mike Parker who is with Christie's now Park City. I'll get to that later. But he was a sales and marketing consultant hired by developers to come in, assess the sales team skills, assess the marketing for the project. And when I met him he recruited me into sales and when I learned about how he coached salespeople, I felt comfortable with that. It's all, you know, what you'll hear Mike Parker say is it's always open, honest and fair. You want to just help the client really understand the project. Help and be an expert in building value in the project and help them, you know, quickly identify a few things that might work for them. And if you do that effectively, people will make decisions and people will buy real estate. And if you're an expert on your product, you build credibility in yourself. People trust you and then you could guide them to a successful sale. And so when I learned that you could be a salesman without cheesy one liners or you know, trying to manipulate people to buy things that they don't want, when I learned you

7:26 could do it ethically and in a systematic way that is right for the customer, then I was all in. And, and, and I think that gave me a lot of confidence. And when you are confident, you know, people will respond to that and it, and, and I didn't have to be a self promoter. That was another reason why I, I feel more comfortable in development sales sometimes is one you get to be an expert on one thing, you're not bouncing around showing a lot of different product that you have some knowledge of but you're not a deep expert in and developers drive leads to their sales team and so I didn't have to go out and self promote. And so development sales is a good fit for me because I don't have to self promote.

8:14 They do the promotion and I get to be an expert on something and I feel way more confident when I truly understand the product. So in tahoe. So in 2006 I started working for developer called East West Partners at a resort called Northstar and they did an entire village at Northstar, about 250 condos and commercial and an ice rink and they did a Ritz Carlton. So they had me working the village and in my offices in the Ritz Carlton that they built. Great recession happened in 2008 and essentially development sales shut down. They were pretty much sold out of the Village. The Ritz we still had inventory in, but the capital partner walked away. And so they just shut down sales. They didn't want to, you know, give away the remaining real estate at that time. And so there were several of us for East West Partners who were looking for work.

9:14 And we got recruited by Talisker Corp. In Park City to come out and do sales and marketing and vertical construction. All three of us are still in town. One of us did go to Big sky for a period and came back, but we're all still in town. I do sales. The other two are developers locally, one for East West Partners. The other for talisker is that bill 5 ash. And so bill 5 ash is the managing partner for East West Utah division. And Jeff Butterworth is the president of Story Development. Story Development is the group that took Talisker Club and all their assets over in 2018 after they were. After the original Talisker developers foreclosed upon. And so Jeff got brought back to run Story Development assets.

10:13 And so that's a big shift to. Go from client focused, you know, ski instructing golf. Did you ever kind of wake up and go, whoa, how'd I get here? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think as I look back on it, you know, one, as Max and I discussed earlier, the recessionary, the Great Recession was really hard on my family. Right. In October of 2008, when the great Recession was happening, I had my first and only child. And I'm in a commission based business of which I hadn't been in that long. So my book of business was.

10:53 Had some depths to it. But I remember In, I think 2009, I made 25 to $30,000, right? So it was below cost of living, especially living in Lake Tahoe. So. So then moving out to Park City. My first job was the Waldorf Astoria, Park City, because I had hotel experience in Lake Tahoe at the Ritz. And so Talisker put me on that project. And but sales were hard to come by. The average price per square foot in the Canyons at that time was $400 a square foot and we had to sell at about 750 a square foot. We were pretty successful enough to get me by for a few years. But it was, you know, it was, it was a grind until about 2015 for me, getting momentum in a new market. What did your, I mean, when you say growing up you're the only skier in your family? It's always interesting to me when people talk about real estate, realtors and sales. I always perceive sales as like the traveling salesman showing up at your door with some product or something and yeah, knives, he's cutting a can in the living room. Or salesman.

12:14 Yeah. Tries every line in the book to. Get somebody to buy where the reality is, you know. Yeah, it's sales. Right. You're, you're selling somebody else's stuff. That's right. Which is really interesting. Right. And I like the idea of being a middleman or a middle person. I think that's really interesting. But going back to like your family, what's everybody else doing? Are they, are they in markets like this? What's their perception of what you do and where you do it? Because, man, you're the only skier. But now you're out here selling skiing, ski out properties for tens of millions of dollars. That's a really hard thing for a lot of people to wrap their mind around. Even here, when you're around it, what is your family's perception of that world that you're clearly like a leader in now? Well, they always. My ultimate goal, and they know this, was to live in a ski town. I just always felt drawn to the mountains. My wife grew up in, near Santa Cruz, California. She is reluctantly a mountain girl. I think she's more, she'd rather live by the ocean. But I've always been drawn to the mountains and my family knew that. So whatever it took for me to stay in the mountains and provide for my family is kind of the driving force to getting into sales and getting into real estate because it's one of the few industries in mountain towns where

13:44 you can survive and make a good living to afford to live in these towns. My family, there's not really a lot of history of people doing sales in my family. Like, my father owned a civil engineering company in Scranton, Pennsylvania. So every time I say Scranton, everybody's like, it's the office. And ironically, when you look at the opening scenes of the office, it's like that area where my dad's office was. And you know, coincidentally, I, you know, we, we. Well, I'll leave that off. But, but, but. So he had an engineering background, which is what I studied in college. My older brother, my oldest brother is a successful salesperson for Boston Scientific, which is a medical sales company. And, and, and he's done very well with that company over time.

14:43 Nobody else is in sales. Everybody else is more science based. My, my youngest brother is IT for big IT company and my other brother is in engineering. And my sister, she, she is the smartest one in the family and so. She does all sorts of. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Any of them still in Pennsylvania? They're all in Pennsylvania. Oh, nice. Yeah, some of them have strayed, but they came back. I was the one who just, I went west and never came back. Yeah, recreation's too good out here. Mom. Wolf. So, you know, honestly, when I'm with my family, we don't really talk about that stuff. So I, you know, I think as the middle child and as the one who probably had, you know, I like to say that my 20s were like a crease in time. I barely remember them.

15:35 I think it was, you know, moving around, partying a little bit too much, you know, skiing, doing fun stuff. I really didn't grow up until got into my 30s at least. Grew up a little bit more. It's like 10 years before me, thank goodness. I think my family's expectations, although there's lots of love there, were fairly low of me. So I think, as I tell my wife, I'm overperforming in life. And so I feel gratitude every day that I get to work in this town with the great people we get to work with and colleagues in the industry. And so like they, I mean, you say that like you're looking at it through their lens, right? Like they see you as overperforming in life, but do you feel like you're overperforming in life and it doesn't have to be economic.

16:28 Like, do you feel like in your leadership roles and in the decisions you're making as a father and as a husband and like, I mean it, you know, perception can be reality sometimes perception is reality. And, you know, in our limited amount of time knowing each other last year and a half or so, like, I feel like you're pretty authentically yourself. You're living your truth and that's, that's cool. I think that's, that that lends itself to being a good leader and that lends itself to people wanting to ask you a lot of questions and get in, get into your brain. Self interested folks want to learn the business and do as well as you've done. But also, I think they trust that you're going to give them an honest answer. But you, you Believe that you're overachieving in terms of where you came from?

17:18 Or did you think you always had that confidence and you were like, it's just a matter of time? No, I. Confidence is always a big issue for me. Like, I, you know, when I, you know, when I played a little bit of competitive golf in college, I knew I was never going to go very far because I just didn't have the confidence that a lot of the other athletes had and, and then just kind of bumbling around in my 20s, not really sure what direction I was going to go, so. And I would say to this day, I think one of the things that drives me to work hard is a little bit of lack of confidence, a little bit of insecurity. Right. Like, I have to get up every day and prove it.

18:00 I can't just get up and I'm super confident I'm going to get the job done. Now, I've certainly got to a point where I know I'm competent in this role that I'm playing and that I can serve buyers and sellers and my developers at a very high level because I've immersed myself in this business for 20 years. If I go back to starting in 2006 and working with some of the great developers in the ski industry, I've been very fortunate that way to learn from them. But I would say definitely still carry a little insecurity. Like, I've got to prove myself every day. You know, being essentially broke around the Great Recession was humbling as well.

18:44 And, you know, I feel like, you know, every day I get up with just a little bit of nerves, like, I gotta go out and, and prove it. Prove to the world that I still. Know what I'm doing. I mean, I, I kind of feel like there are personalities that almost require that, you know, without that drive, like, I kind of see it as a drive. Right. It's the thing that keeps your fire going. For sure. You, like, know the tiger's coming after you and you gotta figure out what you're doing. Yeah. Say, that's very accurate. So, I mean, honestly, I think there's a part of me that responds to what you're saying in a way of like, could it be seen as a good, a good feature, a good personality feature of yours that has kept you moving?

19:33 Yeah, I mean, I think in this role that I'm playing, we are humble servants to our clients. Right. Like what my goal is to be a, you know, I've said this before to my clients, a low maintenance performer. Right. Especially with My developers. Right. Because there's a lot of, I think in the real estate industry where I see some of my colleagues, other salespeople get themselves in trouble is they come in with a big ego and they complicate transactions and they also, you know, maybe feel like they're deserving of more and more all the time. Where I want to come into a company or a relationship, not bring any drama to the table and perform for the client. And I think that served me well because I've, you know, especially in other development group settings, I've seen my colleagues come in with, you know, expectations that the developer just needs to do more and more for them.

20:34 Where I look at it from the opposite perspective, that I just need to keep doing more and more for the developer. Right. And so if I could be a low maintenance performer, I feel like there's, there's always somebody who wants that person on there within their, their company. So within that, like that, that kind of leads into this. The personality of a real estate agent. And I mean, we're not always selling our favorite product. And sometimes the authentic part of me is like, oh, you know, am I full of shit just for this, this thing? Is that. How does that jive?

21:15 Right. When you see a development that you, I think we all know, sometimes you gotta say no. Sometimes you gotta just kind of accept that something's not gonna work. We've already seen that in the last year and a half or two years with different things. Just sometimes you wanna be the third real estate agent on the team, right? Like that's what Carol Eagle always said was you want to be the third real estate agent in a development because. Then the seller's humble. The seller has probably more realistic in what's going on in the market and they're a better partner. Like I think is your question kind of, how do I evaluate my, the partnerships I get into? I think there's a little of that, probably less. How do I sell different product? Yes. Last nuts and bolts more. Are there moments over the last 15 years when you've caught yourself, you've gone home and been like, man, I was full of shit today. I actually don't buy that and woken up in the morning and either doubled down or course corrected in a more authentic way because we can lose ourself in this is the right, you know, God, I really want this one to go through.

22:22 I found myself occasionally waking up and being like, you know what? I think they like that house for the wrong reason. I want to make sure that I point out that thing because I need to go to sleep the next night feeling okay. And if they still choose it, all the cards are on the table. I don't want them. I don't want to play some shadow game where they didn't see that piece. No, no. Well, I don't, I don't know if I've had that feeling. Right. Like, the way I look at real estate is, you know, each piece of real estate is a fit for someone and it's my job to ask a lot of deep questions and knowing to the customer to understand what they're looking for, but also have a very critical eye on the real estate to make sure that there's not latent problems that they're not noticing or things that they're not picking up on that would make them regret moving forward with the purchase. And so the worst question I get is, would you buy this mat? Yeah. Because my response to that is I'm not you. My family has different goals and might have different goals and desires.

23:34 Yeah. My piece of real estate, I want a good location and I want as much privacy as I could get. Other people might want to be in on Main street, which is party in, party out. Right. And so really where I tell people is my job is to help you objectively see what life is like owning this real estate. Make sure that you're getting a good value, you're protected in a contract process. And so I don't feel like I've ever really made a conscious effort to or, or felt like people were going the wrong direction because I always let them make the choice on the, the subjective choices on the pro property. I'm helping guide them on the objective things. It's not about you, the data, the nothing else. That's right. It's not about you. Don't get in the way. I, that's the lesson I've learned the last couple years. When you were, when you were talking, the one thing that popped in my head is I have gone home going, is the developer that I'm representing doing the right things?

24:40 Yeah. Every once in a while I do have concerns and I haven't worked for a developer that I haven't trusted in a very long time. But there was a moment in time 10ish years ago where I worked for a few developers that they were giving me guidance on the product they were going to deliver from a quality perspective or a timing perspective. But I, I didn't, I wasn't sure I trusted that information. But it was my job to go out and relay that information to customers in hopes that they would get attracted to the product. Product and buy. And so there were a few moments in my career that, you know, pre construction real estate, I tell people you have to really understand who you're doing business with and they need to be credible because there's risks if you're not dealing with, with a credible developer or a developer who's willing to operate in the moral gray area.

25:36 And so I would say those were the worst moments for me. Going home, going like, you know, am I. Am I representing a, you know, potentially an unethical person? Am I guiding a good family into that situation? I just don't know. Right. I'm the messenger a lot of times. But when you're in the business, you start to get a feel for these things. And so those are probably the hardest moments. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So because I'm on the heels of leaving, closing a career, I have been sitting with a lot of for the past year, discomfort around, is this the right time?

26:22 Know all these things. Can you look back on the last 20 years of your life and say, oh, there was this blip where I said, am I on the right path? Is this what I should be doing? Or do you get there? I mean, I think you do. My observation of really everybody that has career in their path is you're going to hit these times and what you're doing where it doesn't mean you, you need to leave or blow it up and do something different, but it does mean that maybe you need a challenge in a different way or you need a relationship shift or something. Have you experienced that? Sure, yeah. I mean, well, one, I. I started real estate in 2006. A couple years later, it was the worst industry to be in. So did I choose. But like, and so, you know, and I was struggling to just keep my family afloat at that point. And so there's certainly self doubt there. Like, man, should I just abandon this and get back into some form of a salaried position?

27:28 But I think one, once I learned Mike Parker's technique is his company's called Modus and he can be on this podcast. You might want to interview him. He's. He'd be pretty interesting, I think, to talk to. But when I learned that I could be in this industry and operate in a way that was consistent with my moral fabric and live in a mountain town, which was again my goal, to have a good lifestyle in a mountain town, I kind of blindly just kept my head down and just kept working as hard as I Could through the recession. But you know, even as we got out of the recession, 2011, 12, 13, and the market started picking back up, I was still relatively new in Park City.

28:21 And it's a roller coaster ride, this industry. Right. You'll have a couple clients who do a deal and then your pipeline gets really quiet for some months and you start doubting will it ever pick back up again. And so for newer agents, you just have to have a little bit of faith that if you're putting in good hard, smart work, it's going to keep coming to you. Right. You have to have that, that mindset. But I, but there were certain periods where I had doubt just due to droughts in business, but especially in serving private parties on the development end, I always enjoy that because you're not just selling, you're involved in, hey, what size product should we build, what design elements should we have? So it was just a little bit more creativity involved in that. So I always lean towards the development end because it's multidimensional. Okay. If you could sit down with your 20 year old self, what do you think he would think of what's going on in life right now? I think my 20 year old self would love it. That's good because when I was 20 I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do.

29:37 No idea. All I knew is I didn't want to do engineering. I didn't want to, you know, I love my family. I didn't want to live back east. I wanted to be more immersed in, in the recreation that we get in these mountain towns. And I just felt that I was always that person who felt the desire to like, I need to break out, I need to see what it's like to get out of the area I grew up in. And I just had that desire. And so, and, and I don't think, and I think my 20 year old self didn't have a lot of hope for the future. Right. Like I, I, you know, I've been open with my son. I had depression back then. I think I was, you know, I grew up in an area where on the weekends people watched sports and drank. Right. And that's what, you know, dominated a lot of lifestyles. And so I think, you know, just poor eating habits and maybe too much partying on the weekends started to affect my mental health a little bit. But that coupled with, you know, general insecurities and lack of confidence kind of made me feel like, hey, I don't know if the future is that bright. Yeah, And I didn't find my passion or my purpose until way later, I would say, really hitting my stride with career and positive mental health and a great family. Like, I didn't really start to appreciate that stuff probably until, you know, until I was in my 40s almost. Yeah, we, we have this conversation, Joanna and I,

31:09 whenever we're feeling overworked or feeling like just in the, just in the weeds, in the soup. It's, go back 10 years and just put on those goggles from 10 years ago and look at what you've accomplished over the last 10 years. Look at your family, look at what you do on a regular basis, look at your capabilities. And I came in here one time this winter and Matt still had on some gear from being up in the mountains doing something on his snowmobile. And he shows me a picture of something he sent to another agent in town. Like, I'll get back to you when I get back. Right? Kind of. He's on the top of some mountain by himself with his snowmobile and his skis. And I can think I thought about that because I was like, man, look, this dude rolled out here. He had a rough start in 2006, 7, 8. It's a rough start, but you know, on a Wednesday, he's up there, skin powder, sending photos of himself to a lifelong local real estate agent here in town who's grinding. And so I could see why your 20 year old self would be proud of you.

32:22 And I believe that they should be right. I believe that they have something to look up to. And there's a through line with a lot of the agents that we're talking to on this podcast, people we talk to in general. It's, you know, you, you might be in sales, but you're selling something that comes from a really organic place. You're selling a lifestyle, you're sell, selling some a dream. And as long as we've all been here, the reality is this is still a dream for the people who are arriving right now. A few years ago, I've told this story one other time on the podcast, but I was dropping my kids off at school the first day it snowed, and I bumped into this woman who had just moved here with her family.

33:02 And you know, I was thinking, here we go. Mud season started early. You know, can't go get on the trails, they're wet and whatever. And I said, hey, how's it going? And she just looked at me like she saw an angel. She was just, she was so psyched. She goes, this is the Best day ever. Look at us. We're dropping our kids off at school, there's snow on the mountains. Like, it's happening, you know, and it's like. That actually is something about the real estate industry that I think is really cool, is we have access to people who spark that energy again and again and again. And that's something that can really feed a community with positivity rather than pessimism. And I think it feeds the mental health thing.

33:48 There are lots of ways to navigate life here in a positive way, and I think real estate agents are at the forefront of showing people how to enjoy this community. I think that's what I love about Mountain Town. It's like we're all here for good, positive reasons. We're here because we love nature. We love, you know, getting out into nature and having fun with it, and we love sharing it with other people. Like, we get to help people integrate these positive things into their lifestyle, even if they can only do it a few weeks to the year. I always felt like I want to live. I want to live where people want a vacation.

34:28 So that my general life is centered around those vacation activities. Right where I have friends who work in New York City. I couldn't for any money in the world that it wouldn't work in there, because the people who work there, at least in my opinion. Right. They spend all their time and effort generating money so they can come out here a few weeks a year. Why not just cut that short and just live out here? And so. And just the general culture in the mountain towns, because of, you know, that common fabric between all of us, which is centered around nature and. And recreation, that the vibe is just so good. Like, I. I have so much gratitude for the fact that I can live and work out here. I just.

35:15 Yeah. I mean, I think that what I hear from you is not until you were connected to your. The root of who you are and what was important to you, of course your family's important to you, and of course you love them. And you don't have to be right next door to them to have that relationship. Your journey out to find a space that felt the most authentic to you is what brought you that, like, seated peace to have what you. I think you're 100% right. I think if I didn't make the move out here, I don't think I would have the peace that I have now. Right. I think a couple big influences for me were that have gotten me to a place of peace and gratitude are one.

36:03 The humbleness of going through the recession. And so anything you have after that is a bonus. You just like, man, at least I'm not back at that stage where I was just concerned every month that I wasn't going to pay the bills and I wasn't going to be able to take care of that infant that's in the house and my wife, right? And so, you know, starting there and getting to where I'm at now, just, it's easy to have gratitude. And then, you know, about five to seven years ago, I had some health, some real health issues that make you contemplate life, right? And the finite aspects of it and the fragility of it. And so, you know, those two things, you know, people, my wife and the people I work with are like, you never get frazzled, you never get stressed, you never. We never see you lose your cool. And it's because I think it's just pure perspective, right? You go, hey, we're tiny little things in the universe that are here for a blink in time.

37:07 Let's not sweat the small stuff. Take care of your customer, take care of your family, and let's do it. I see a lot of similarities between you and Lauren, actually. She's just finishing a 20 year career in youth mental health and developing programs around that. And one of the things she mentioned to me when we first started talking about this is like, look, I gotta put some of my judgment aside. I need to sort of reevaluate the way I perceive myself and also put what the needs of my family first. And she's been working her ass off for 20 years. And you know, she sees Park City, you know, in Park City, out of Park City, moving in and out. So she has this perspective that, that is really, it's refreshing for me anyway.

37:58 And she's like, yeah, I think I need to put my energy into something that has the potential for a bigger economic reward so that I can stay here, I can feed my family, I can create the time. And one of the things we talked about, the first thing we set committed to each other was, you know, our calendars. We're going to book our days off first and then we're going to backfill with, you know, the time we're going to spend. And that's the reason I want to have a partner is because I really want to build in that life piece. I've always had that. Lauren's always had that. Her job has been pretty flexible. But we know that this industry requires a lot of attention and I think we, yeah, and we kind of feel like if you have a partner and you're not just only bottom line oriented, if the bottom line is life first, then, you know, we start from the right foundation and I think we can work together well. But then navigating heavy, stressful situations in her previous professional life allows for a lightness and a brevity to this that allows it to be fun and, like, entertaining. Yeah, it's like, is a good thing. Yeah. Nobody's, you know, it really, we're helping somebody find the right thing or we're not. And, and I think, you know, there is a lot of joy in this industry, especially if you, if agents who make

39:32 strong efforts to protect their clients. And, and so when, when you make those strong efforts and you take risk and you mitigate it, then really our world, when you're good at mitigating risk, then the world is really centered around the good aspects of the sales process, which is helping people, you know, find more joy in their lives by integrating themselves within our market. And so I, I love, I love my job. You know, I wasn't sure, like, of course, I didn't grow up going, I want to be a salesman. Who does? It's crazy, isn't it? That is, that is one of the craziest things. Like, Lauren and I, honestly, we talked about this podcast just because it's a little bit self help, right? Like navigating our.

40:18 Navigating the picture in the mirror as we take on this new identity. And Allie said it in a previous interview that she had seven jobs. And when she was talking to Brad, he said, how do you introduce, you know, what, what do you do for a living? And she said, well, I do this and this. And he goes, wrong answer. The answer is you're a realtor. That's it. That's the answer. And you gotta get good with that. And Lauren's gonna get to start doing that here in the next few weeks. And I think it's been fun for us to say, like, when she comes on, we get to say, hey, go listen to the podcast. You'll get to know Matt a little better, get to know Allie, Jake, Christine, Granny, you know, you get to know us a little better. I think it's a fun way to introduce her to the community.

41:07 But what's it doing for you? Like, every one of these is a new con. How's it, how's it feeling? Because we are in the presence of a, of a mentor of many people. This is a good opportunity to ask questions and also just like, let it Let us know how it's going a little bit for you. The last two days, this is the second day she hasn't had her other job. Welcome to. Yeah, welcome to the trot. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, very transparently, I don't think it feels real yet. I was texting with a friend who I worked with last night and I was like, it kind of feels like I took a day off of work. That's it. But I think what I have appreciated about the podcast is the first thing that I do connect with about this world is that it is about trust and human connection.

42:02 You couldn't do any of this without that. And being able to sit and hear about people's lives, hear about these journeys, have them trust us to ask them questions and record what they're saying. I think it creates a relationship or an arm of the relationship that I don't have. You know, I have this career of 20 years where I have people all over the country and the world who I've worked with. I mean, very intimately. The things that we have to talk about are intense and. And I think to leave that you feel a little adrift in what you're going into and to be able to sit down with people and have that human connection has been a little life giving, actually, in a way that I didn't expect. You know, I think we started this because we both process verbally, I think, and. And we were having these conversations anyway, and it feels really connecting to bring people into the conversation and hear, you know, about their journey through it and hear what they have to add and also remove some of the other stuff that's unnecessary and be like, I grew up a state over from you. That's right. Kind of doing the same thing.

43:24 Leaving my job at the ski shop and going to night ski at Brighton with a bunch of, you know, stoners that I worked with. And here we are. You know, it's. It is. I think it's a little. Yeah, I don't know, fills something for me that I didn't expect. I think that. I think it'll be your superpower is your ability to connect with people through questions, show empathy for what they're trying to accomplish. Obviously it's not as serious as what you dealt with in the past, but like when we train real estate agents in projects, first part is human connection. You know, I tell them, you just make friends first, show them that you care, learn about them, because, you know, it makes people feel comfortable. It makes them feel.

44:14 And once you have that human connection, they're going to use you as a resource. There's a thousand agents in this market. We're replaceable in the beginning until we prove otherwise. But, you know, to one, generate that human connection and show them that you care through questions about what they're trying to accomplish. You know, what kind of property, where do you guys feel safe? What do you like to do when you're in your home? That's huge for the customer and that's what the customer deserves. Yeah. And so I think you're going to be able to bring that authentically better than most agents in our market and that's good for the client. And then of course, you have to build credibility in yourself. You have to show them that know what to do in S. Martin.

45:00 And once you accomplish those two things, you have a, you have a fan for life. They're going to work with you and they're going to send friends to you. So I think again, your skill is needed more in the, in, in our industry. And you know, I think a lot of people enjoy working with you guys. Because, well, we'll find out, won't we? I think, I think, you know, being able to connect and show people that you care about helping them find the right thing and being passionate and cr. And, and knowledgeable in your market, that's all you need. So one of the things. Well, go ahead. One of the things that we've. So we've been going 45 minutes here. We usually try and kind of get to it in about an hour.

45:44 We think that's starting to, starting to feel right. We've been. We got a little feedback. We were running, we were running a little long, but something. Lauren. We walked away from Christine, Granny's interview and we were like, God, you know, when we're, when we bump, bump into her on the street, there's always some like crazy shit that happened. Right. Like, it's always something big. And like Allie touched on something the other day. She's like, yeah, to jump a fence, you know, to get in the back and do you have any of that? I mean, you got 20 years going back. Developments are a little different. Right.

46:24 Single family homes. I know you sold a lot of those as well. But, you know, Christine's like, I've definitely walked in on people in the shower on accident or the wrong house and just walked in confidently. You seem like you're really prepared and when you walk into a place you know what you're going into that feels like your identity. But mistakes, crazy. Anything happened that you don't Talk about much that wouldn't give it away. I mean, I think I have similar instances where, especially working in the hotel environment where I've gotten given keys to units that are occupied. And so I'm very cautious going into anything anymore because I've walked in where people weren't ready for someone to walk in to show real estate. So certainly have those stories. You know, I think I have my guard up sometimes when I start dealing with clients because I've definitely dealt with a few who have psychological problems and were never really buyers, but wanted maybe, you know, real estate agents or salespeople in general will make someone feel important because we, especially if we're good at our job, we show that we care, we take interest. And then, and I've had instances where, you know, one being in Lake Tahoe, when I was at the Ritz Carlton, I had a guy who called me and said he was interested in one of the penthouse units. And at the same time

47:56 he was going to buy a penthouse in Tahoe at the Ritz. And the Ritz in it was somewhere in the Hawaiian Islands, think Maui. And both projects were going at the same time. But it was this long, drawn out thing over weeks where I just couldn't get him to move forward. So I started calling Hawaii and Hawaii's like, no, we're talking to this guy. You know, we're halting construction on one of our condos because he wants to customize it. That gave me some confidence in this guy. He had an interior design group that he was working with on both projects, but he hadn't committed in any form. He hasn't put a contract in. And so there were some red flags there. But he kept making these signals and his story checked out right. He was from Canada. His, his family was. This came from this family. Of course, you research it. And they made a ton of money during the Great Depression. But of course that was fabricated at the end. But. But he tied up the unit at the Ritz in Tahoe. The Ritz in Hawaii had a design team that was working for him. And it was all building up to this date where he was going to fly to la, pick up his design team, fly to Maui and consummate the deal there, and then fly to Lake Tahoe and consummate the deal with us. Well, the Maui group had a big party ready for them. So that day came,

49:27 I was in touch with the interior designer and the Maui team. And the day came, the designers were at the airport in la, the Maui team was all ready. We were Cautiously ready in Tahoe. But Bill Fiveash, who works here now, he was my director of sales back then, and he's like, this doesn't feel right. While the design team never got picked up, team in Maui had a big party ready. That never happened. And nobody ever heard from the guy again. But for probably a month, all of us were running in circles trying to take care of him because he had convinced us that he was real and he was going to move forward with these properties. And he had lots of credible elements of his story that red flags. So I think at the end of the day, that was one of the weirder stories that I've had in real estate industry. And those people are out there and they exist, but I think I have a little bit of a better radar for that now. Well, it sounds like you had radar back then, but you were threatened to not listen to it, right? That's right. I was dazzled by the potential of what at that time would have been by far the biggest deal I didn't in.

50:42 In real estate. So how do you. How do you. I mean, first, like that. There's a. There's an innate piece of that. Right. We all have to read people. We gotta kind of get through it. Fear of being wrong about that would suck a little bit. You've had a lot of people work on teams with you. You built a pretty cool, a pretty unique team down here. We were saying on our previous interview that I love being in the office down here because there are a couple people on your team that make me feel like I'm not that much of an outlier in the community of real estate agents in Park City. But how do you help people develop that radar? I imagine it's through questions and answers. But how do you keep people from being skeptical? I know it's happened. It's happened to me. I've been all the way down the line with somebody and just had to, you know, okay, well, there's still a 5% chance this could work out, but I just don't think it's gonna. Gotta walk away. How do you not spend 90% of your time on 10% of your people? You know, I don't know. Like, I. I think I just come.

51:59 I always come to the table with good assumptions about people. Yeah. I force myself to do that. So I come. Everybody is my best friend and I trust everybody until I don't. Until they prove themselves otherwise. I don't come into relationships with, you know, with. With concern or skepticism. And that's just a. I would say general trait. I would say there's a lot of people who come to relationships from the opposite perspective. But I think in the role we play, I don't know if that's very healthy, but because it's very rare that somebody's going to waste your time, and it's very rare that somebody's going to do the wrong thing. I mean, I've done. I was looking at my statistics for my career in Park City recently, and I've done about 370 transactions in the last 15 years in Park City.

52:56 There's only been a handful that. That I felt like I've gotten burned. And there's only been a handful of people, you know, in my time that have truly wasted my time. Those numbers are pretty good. Yeah. And so I think. I think I just. And I'd rather live in a world where everybody's my friend until they prove themselves otherwise. I think that just. It's healthy for me. And I. And. And so. And I truthfully think the customer deserves that on the front end is. Is positive assumptions a hundred percent. Well. And I think part of that, I have to believe I've experienced it in other ways, is when you surround yourself with good people who you trust on your team or, you know, however you do it, they can check you, right. You can go, okay, this is what I am experiencing.

53:49 I have this little nagging thing. You tell me what you see. Yeah, I do that all the time. I'm fortunate to have Jill keeps it all together. It's always chaos in this business, right, because we might have 10 things to do during a day, and a client pops up and they want to go see real estate, and you just got to drop everything and go do it, because that's how we make our money. And Jill keeps it all together for us. Brad on my team is very complimentary in the sense that he stays in tune with the financial markets and what's going on on a macro level. And Ali Dudek on our team, she's just infectious energy all the time, and that's always good to have in the office. Jennifer and Corey bring hard work and lots of creativity. So, yeah, I've consciously surrounded myself with people that I think either compliment me or just create a work environment that I want to be in every day. And that's probably one of the proudest things I have of not just my team, but Christie's Park City is we started this company, and I think the main goal was to be part of something that we just all wanted to be part of for the rest of our career. And so the people we hire, we're just very conscious of hiring people we believe come from the right place and are not only going to take care of their

55:21 fellow colleagues in the company and truthfully in Park City real estate industry, but their clients and, you know, because at the end of the day, we could hire some people who generate revenue, but if they affect our culture, it's just not worth it. Last question. Yep. Where are you in 10 years? Man, I'm wandering the earth with my skis and my bike and wherever the wind in the road takes me. I think that's where I'm at in 10 years. But I'm still doing real estate. I'm still here. I'm still in Park City. Of course I would like to. I'll never retire. Like, going into my 50s is kind of. So I'm 52. But as I was approaching my 50s, I started thinking about retirement and I quickly realized that I would be bored out of my mind and I would drive my wife crazy, and she's like, yes. Yeah. And, and so, but. But I also love coming to work. Right. Like, I, I really enjoy this business. I just would ratchet it down or hand things off to my team and allow myself to, you know, my form of travel is a great road trip. Like, I'd rather do that than a lot of other things. I just feel like I feel more connected to wherever I'm going in the places if I do it that way. So, you know, with Starlink and a few other things, I think I can manage my world from, you know, the road.

56:49 So I'm on the road in 10 years. Seymour. That's good. I'm having good road check. You can definite that. Yeah, we could go. We could go all day. That's up to. That's a whole other podcast. It's just road trips with realtors. Maybe this evolves into that. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think we, you know, we really appreciate that you take the time. We, you know, we're very transparent. This is a great podcast for our industry and the customer. Yeah. Like, I think other agents should listen to it so that, that, that, you know, because people are always wondering, like, how do I. How do I get to where some people are at in the industry or how do I create a business that's successful and enjoyable?

57:37 So I think you're doing a great service for our, our colleagues, but also, you know, the customer having a little bit of insight into this. Like, we're all those of us who are, are Taking this serious as a profession. We're grinding it out every day for our clients. They rarely see what we're doing, but there's just a lot to it and. Well, also it's just we're all human out here, right? And this is just a job. That's what it is. It happens to be a really impactful one here in Park City. It happens to be a lucrative one for those of us who really want to do it and do it well. You can't be a hobby agent and do that well, not very often anyway.

58:20 And you know, I think that it's fun for Lauren and I to like shoot the breeze about who we're going in with. We don't have to beg for coffee and then, you know, just take your time. Hopefully you find value in it and hopefully other people do because, you know, ideally it's, it really is for us and for everybody and you know, like, if there's ever a time you want to get a message out there to the listener, let us know. I'd love to do it again. Yeah, we can do topics on, you know, what, what the, what the market looks like going forward either in Park City from a real estate perspective or you know, what I feel like it's going to be like in 10 to 20 years for the real estate agent population because the all industries are changing. Like our town is changing from a development perspective, but the industry's changing due to technology and new laws and all that stuff. So Yeah, I mean, ChatGPT cannot do a podcast all by itself that's authentic to the community.

59:25 And you know, the road trip might be kind of fun to go to grab a realtor in Aspen, talk to him about what's going on there, go to Jackson, go to Sun Valley. You know, Mike Scherf is up in Sun Valley, we talk all the time. He's, you know, he's trying to break in and figure it out. It's, I think it's interesting, it's interesting to compare mountain towns to other mountain towns and hopefully it feels like an outlet for people and it's not too long and self centered. I don't know. But no, I didn't get that impression. Conversation throughout. Yeah, and like the ski and sell out thing is kind of fun because it's like, I think one thing that Joanna asked me about was like, why that name? And I said, well, I think we talked about it too. Nobody's not in real estate is going to listen to a podcast called Keeping it Real Estate. Like nobody gives a shit. But a sellout. You know, people might think about that a little bit. That might get somebody who's not in the industry to listen and be a little bit interested and maybe not.

1:00:28 Maybe various interpretations of it. Yeah. So I think it generates interest. Yeah. All right, well, that's like. That's a full hour, Matt. Thanks, dude. Really appreciate it, Lauren. Anything else? Yeah, I want to be. I don't want this to be my last episode, so. It won't be. Yeah, it won't be. We'll do a regular check in with Magnotta. Yeah. Yeah, Maybe on