34 - Who Do You Want to Be This Time? Charlie Johnson

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Okay, we're back on ski and sell out with Max Doylene and

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Lauren Androsa. And today we have. Today again we

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have Charlie Johnson, who went to

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high school in Park City, moved in and out of town,

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Montana. We go, we go way back, not all the

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way back like some of our guests with me, but pretty far into the

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high school years. And that's plenty. He has plenty of stories to tell

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about you. Yeah. And honestly, this is like a last little bit of dirt.

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A little dirt. We could learn some shit. I'd like to.

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Yesterday we were having coffee and I was like, oh, you know what? This would

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be kind of an interesting conversation. So I said, charlie, let's do it.

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And he happens to be here this week. Yep. So.

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But Lauren doesn't know Charlie, so this is becoming a

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theme. Yep, it's good. Okay, you ready? I am, yeah.

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Okay. You moved here in high school, but where did you move here from?

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Western Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh in particular.

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So I, Yeah, it was a very different experience

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than Park City. So it was, it was an extreme in

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many ways. So I went to an all boys Catholic school in,

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in the city. So it was, you know, know,

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just that aspect in and of itself and just culturally just a very different part

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of the world. Right. It's kind of, you're kind of on the outskirts of Appalachia,

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not really east coast, not really Midwest.

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Kind of an interesting place with its own kind of

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unique history and character and, and like, like anywhere.

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Just like Park City. But coming to Park City was just a huge

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eye opener for me. Right. It's coming from somewhere that's I

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would say is pretty close minded in terms of, you know,

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how people act, what they do for a living, I mean, in all aspects

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of life. Right. And in, in being in a conservative environment, like going

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to a parochial school was a, was a, was huge.

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Right. I came here, I made friends right away because I had actually,

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my mom's sister had lived here in Park City since I think

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the early 80s. And part of the, part of the impetus

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for moving here actually was that my uncle here in was who

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sold real estate and was a ski racing coach here in town, was diagnosed

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with terminal cancer. And so my mom thought it was a good idea to

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kind of move out. And it was a good move too,

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for the benefit of myself and my brother. She just

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wanted better quality of life and she also wanted to be closer to her sister

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while she was going through that. So, yeah, it was a big. So you spent

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your whole childhood in Pittsburgh? Yeah, I spent, well, kind Of

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Right. So I come from a divorced family like a lot of people in my

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generation. My dad, after my parents got divorced,

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he had kind of split town and he eventually landed in Southern California

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where he was kind of working for I think Merrill lynch at

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the time. And he was an executive out there in la.

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And then he eventually moved down to San Diego,

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just north of San Diego and La Jolla. So I had actually spent

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summers in Southern California and did a year of school in.

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Also very different than Pittsburgh. Yeah, it was super different. So for me

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it was great because I can, you know, I kind of learned to be a

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little bit of a code switcher which I think kind of had helped me out

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later on in life in terms of, you know, making friends, coming somewhere totally

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new. And then obviously in my, you know, you know, where I ended up in

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my career, like where I'm at today, which, you know, we can either get into

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that or not later. We will. Yeah. It's. It's kind of come in

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handy. Right. Like seeing really different parts of the country and having

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to deal with the repercussions of, you know, going away and going back somewhere close

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minded. Right. Yep. Where, you know, I kind of had a target on my back,

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pretty big target with a lot of folks, which was. Was interesting.

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You know, it was a. It was a very different time than I think today.

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Right. Like the 80s. Yeah. So. Well, I mean, I think about

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when you say that, I think about the skills that you had

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to develop that you probably didn't know you were developing. Which is.

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Okay, I see what's in front of me. I gotta figure out how to survive

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in this. It might not be what I choose, but I know that there's no

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choice but to figure it out. So I mean,

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I grew up in Ohio, so I know the idea of

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the Midwest has a certain quality.

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There's a quality that I really love about the Midwest and I think is produces

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some pretty great people from it. And there is a quality of.

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It's pretty insulated in this interesting way because,

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you know, especially if you talk to people who grew up out here, they're like,

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where is Ohio or Pennsylvania? Like, it's not the east, it's not the west,

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it's not the Plains. It's just like this little section.

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Yeah. And it does require people. I mean there's hard

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working people that come out of the Midwest. And I grew up going to Catholic

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school too. It's. It, it's its own beast. Yeah.

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And I have things that I appreciate about it. You Know, so for you,

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it's like you had this slice of this one world until

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the roof got blown off and you're like, wait a minute,

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there's all this other stuff out there. When you were in La Jolla, though,

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you didn't go to a Catholic school there, did you? You just go to a

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public school. It was a private school. It was a private school, but not all

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boys or. No, it was co ed. Yeah. And I actually,

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I mean, I only did my high school in a Catholic school.

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I was in a public school kind of out in a. I guess it was

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like a semi rural suburb of Pittsburgh up until

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I started high school. And that was.

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Pittsburgh is kind of interesting. It's still kind of the same where you

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could be 20 minutes, like from downtown and it's.

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It feels pretty rural. Yeah,

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so it was, it was kind of. Yeah, I kind of got the exposure there

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too, of like, you know, kind of growing up out in that area, but also,

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and then eventually going to school in the city, like directly

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next to the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University. And like

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there was all these, all this culture and all these things happening. And so it

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was pretty different and different people. Right. Like, different looking people,

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different backgrounds. And you come here and it's like white

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bread Mormon football players

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and. How old were you? So you did a little bit of high school there

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and a little bit of high school here. So I just came here for my

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senior year of high school. Yeah, that's a big move. Yeah, it was a big

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move, but it was honestly. And, you know, I had kind of thought

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it over and it was a big choice. And. And for me,

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I've. I was excited. Like, I just look forward to.

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To change at that point. And I don't know, I was probably

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always looking for kind of a way out, you know, I certainly wasn't one of

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those people that was, you know, I appreciated where I was from and I still

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do, but I certainly don't think I would be the type of person that was

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just going to kind of stick around because I think I was exposed

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to. Yeah. You know, different ways of life and,

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and just the outside world that I wanted to,

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you know, I wanted to be a part of it. I knew that. And.

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And again, like, I was kind of an outsider in my community. It was pretty

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rural, pretty conservative, and I was a skate rat,

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like, with a mohawk. And it was. It did not go

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over well. Like, I had to. I mean, there was like a full year where

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I had to like, evade the wrestling team when I left school,

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like, every day. To not get your ass kicked. To not get my ass kicked.

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Yeah, I got my ass kicked a lot. Which also builds other

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skills. Yes, yes. And I have a mouth, too. So anybody

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that knows me that may be listening or not, like, will tell you, like,

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it's probably not a surprise that I took a couple kind

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of it. You know what, though? I think it requires. I mean,

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you can put it in a lot of different ways, but it. It requires a

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little bit of the gift of gab to go to three different high schools

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for sure. Or to go to, like, you know that. Yeah, I went to

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three. I mean, I got. I was invited to go to a different one a

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couple of times. You know, you use that word every time, and it cracks me

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up. I was invited. I was invited to take a year off. You can either

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do this or you can do this. You know,

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it builds character to be invited to do things you don't want to do.

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But it also gives you the opportunity

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to redefine yourself without

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people holding, like, keeping you in that box. You have this. This opportunity

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to go, okay, the last time I showed up for

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the first time, I did this thing, and it didn't go

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well. Don't do that again. If you stay in the same place forever,

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you don't get to get rid of that history. And it's

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actually, like. It's scary, but it's also super

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cathartic to be like, wipe the slate clean.

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Who do I want to be this time? It can be really intoxicating

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because you have new successes and it allows

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you to feel that freedom. Right? Absolutely.

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I mean, I've always thought that. Right. And I've always. That is one of

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the big positives of moving around. And it's not even the stuff that you did

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as, you know, your own actions. Right. It could be

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the actions of right. People in your family. Right. Things that are outside

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your control that maybe, you know, for myself, things outside of my control that

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I. That I probably still carry a. For some odd reason,

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like, would still carry a little shame about. So it's like when

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you move somewhere, people. People don't know that history.

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So you. And you don't, you know, you really don't have to disclose it.

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I mean, I don't know how. How good that is for you mentally, but it

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does give you a chance to kind of, you know, you get to choose.

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You get to choose when and to whom.

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Right. Certainly, at least you get to figure out when the door opens.

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Now, once the door's Open. You can't control what people say,

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where they say it, how they share it. But the initial opening

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is really important. And when you get the experience of

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curating that once and failing to do it a third time or a fourth.

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And as we get older in life, everybody goes through these transaction transitions.

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And, like, I think that's one of the things we talk about here a lot.

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I mean, moving to a new town and getting to redefine yourself,

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even at 50, 60, 70,

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like, when, when. And it will be a win. I get

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to move into a golf course community with a golf cart.

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I'm totally redefining myself. And it's going to be fun. And Joanna's going to

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be the only one that knows it's gonna be fun. I think

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that's what's cool about Park City, though, or communities like it. And a

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lot of big cities, too, is, like, people move here at different stages

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of their life, and they're kind of redefining what their life looks like. I mean,

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you know how they're gonna spend their time, and they get to be what they

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think they are, Right. Oh, I want to

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be known as a mountain biker. Yeah. They roll into town,

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they get the kit, they go every. They go far more

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than I do. Yeah, yeah, right. Like, oh, yeah. Been doing this since

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they had gears on bikes. And they are far more a mountain biker than

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me, and I'm thankful for that. They get to define themselves in

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a way they didn't get to in Pittsburgh or Chicago or LA or wherever.

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And the butterfly effect of that positivity is

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wild. Huge. It's wild. Those endorphins are real,

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even if you didn't get a workout that day. Yeah, no,

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that's true. Well. And I think if you don't get to

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experience. I had somebody, I don't know if it was on the podcast, who asked

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a little bit about my history, and I've moved a few times, and they were

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like, you are so brave. And I was like, what? I have

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never thought of it that way. Cause it's more exciting. But I can appreciate

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for a certain personality or a certain stage in life or a certain whatever,

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that that would be terrifying for some people. And it's

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quite the opposite, I think, for me or for, you know, others. But it

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does. It takes. It takes the ability to appreciate

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what shifting up your life does.

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And once you do it, once you're like, oh, yeah, that was scary and hard,

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but it was also rad. Like, it was pretty great.

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Yeah. I think there's. I mean, There's a flip side, too,

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Right. Like, we all know there's people that, like, want to move every three,

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four years. Sure, yeah. But, yeah, I agree with you

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a hundred percent. Like, there's, there's a lot of positive to it. And.

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Yeah. Do you think those people have learned from their experience,

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though? Like, I, I, I want to put people in a bucket.

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Maybe they've. They're either on the good side. They love,

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they're addicted to the new energy.

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Right. Or, I mean, you can run from things or to

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things. You can have a little bit of both.

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But I don't think moving every three years is necessarily a bad thing,

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but it doesn't allow you to really build community in a way

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that, like, helps some of us feel comfortable.

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Right. Like, going to the grocery store and knowing somebody is one way to.

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Literally, this morning, Lucia was asking me, I don't

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know how this came up. Second day of school, she was like, hey, dad,

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when a glass of water is, has half

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of it and is half full, do you think of it as half empty

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or half full? I was like, awesome. Listen,

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little Buddha. I was like, this is so good. And I had a cup of

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coffee, and my cup was really large, and I had another cup on the counter,

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and I was like, check this out. This is less than half full. And I

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poured it in the other cup, and it was full. And I was like,

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I got a full cup of coffee. If you change your perspective.

222
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,040
Yeah. Everything can become a positive or a negative,

223
00:14:28,540 --> 00:14:32,160
depending on which way the water flows or the juice flows or whatever.

224
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,160
And I sat there and stared at her while I drank my full cup of

225
00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:38,720
coffee, and she was just like, this is rad.

226
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,520
That is, like,

227
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,000
intoxicating, but also right.

228
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,200
Like, you can get addicted to it and just keep getting a smaller and smaller

229
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,760
cup until your world is too small. And then you're never challenged

230
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:56,820
to have positivity in the empty.

231
00:14:57,460 --> 00:15:00,980
It's wild. And so I think moving around at a young

232
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,140
age allows you to sort of stress test that without total

233
00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:07,940
control. And I think, I mean,

234
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:11,820
Lauren and I have been drawn to people who make

235
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,900
a lot of changes a little bit, right? There's. I have

236
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,140
this weird identity piece where I'm like, I live in my hometown.

237
00:15:19,950 --> 00:15:23,190
That's like, that's a jersey that's really weird for me to wear.

238
00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:26,870
And I have to look at a lot. I'm like, I did leave. I travel.

239
00:15:27,370 --> 00:15:30,790
We do all the things. I left for 10 years or whatever. But there's a

240
00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:33,550
big part of me that's Like, I gotta get the hell out of here.

241
00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:36,750
Yeah. Sometime I gotta get out of here and, like, really test it again.

242
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:41,390
It's been too long. You know, it's pretty interesting about that, actually, is in

243
00:15:41,890 --> 00:15:45,270
a place like Park City, it's such a bad honor to still be there.

244
00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:49,530
Right. Like, people are always newer people to Park City are always hap.

245
00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:53,370
Like, they always seem happy to meet people that are my friends

246
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:57,450
and grew up here. Yeah. It's gotta make it pretty interesting.

247
00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:01,370
It's definitely interesting. I don't know. I mean, I also think it's

248
00:16:01,870 --> 00:16:05,370
personality type, because I genuinely believe that there are people

249
00:16:05,850 --> 00:16:09,290
who are quite content to stay in the same place.

250
00:16:09,370 --> 00:16:13,210
Yeah, agreed. Which, frankly, I think is lovely

251
00:16:14,020 --> 00:16:17,940
for them. And I think there are kids who can bop around the country their

252
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,660
whole childhood and be totally fine, and there are kids who. That will

253
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,460
not go well for them. So. Yeah, I mean, I think it's

254
00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:30,260
personality. Well, you made a bunch of transitions even

255
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:33,780
as an adult. Right. Like, hold on. We can't jump too

256
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,180
far. I want to know about what it felt like to move to Park City.

257
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,180
So you had. You been out here before you moved? Yeah,

258
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:43,830
absolutely. Yeah. I mean, even for a couple months at a time.

259
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:47,630
And so I had met some kids just riding around on my

260
00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:51,270
skateboard. Yeah. And. Yeah. I don't know

261
00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:54,270
if I had a mohawk at the time I met them, but, yeah, so I

262
00:16:54,770 --> 00:16:57,950
had met a couple people. So it was. It was a pretty easy

263
00:16:58,450 --> 00:17:01,510
transition because one of them or a few of them remembered me.

264
00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:05,670
Nice. One was Bob McKay, you know, and another

265
00:17:06,170 --> 00:17:09,220
one was. Was Cody Taylor. Yeah.

266
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,100
And I'm not. Yeah. And whose dad used to be Hal Taylor. Used to be

267
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,780
the mayor here. Yeah. And so I had kind of. It was

268
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,540
nice because I had, like, after, you know, being new at school and people

269
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,900
giving me kind of side eye, I think the. My one.

270
00:17:24,060 --> 00:17:27,500
The one guy I had made friends with remembered me, and so

271
00:17:27,660 --> 00:17:31,420
he just kind of took me in, and it was a great group of guys,

272
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,330
and they basically, you know, just brought me in, and it was like,

273
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:39,090
right away, just kind of made friends. Instant community. Instant community.

274
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:43,530
I mean, it was. It was. It was super cool. And a

275
00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:47,610
lot of similarities, too, between all the

276
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:51,490
friends that I made in that friend group. Right. I think, like, everybody, like,

277
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:55,970
most of them were living with single parents. Right. Like, a bunch of them lived

278
00:17:56,370 --> 00:17:59,970
within my walking distance, right in the. In the neighborhood there

279
00:18:00,470 --> 00:18:03,910
in Park Meadows. And it was. It was just super cool for me.

280
00:18:04,410 --> 00:18:07,990
I had lived, like, way out of, like, I was used to not being able

281
00:18:08,490 --> 00:18:11,310
to see neighbors in PA and, you know,

282
00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:14,910
moving to Park Meadows and having friends

283
00:18:14,990 --> 00:18:18,950
that. You know, several friends that were walking distance, like Matt Sta.

284
00:18:19,450 --> 00:18:23,030
Matt and Enzo and all these guys. Yeah, we had dinner with Enzo the other

285
00:18:23,530 --> 00:18:27,030
night. I was sitting there thinking about this. And so

286
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:31,430
Enzo Miletti. Miletti's Bar and Grill up on Main street was

287
00:18:31,930 --> 00:18:34,990
a place where the roots of Park City,

288
00:18:35,070 --> 00:18:38,110
like, the roots of what Park City really is. At that place,

289
00:18:38,670 --> 00:18:41,870
a lot of us kids exist because of bad decisions

290
00:18:42,370 --> 00:18:45,830
made at Maletti's and Enzo's.

291
00:18:46,330 --> 00:18:49,350
Like, dude, I'm still playing golf with my dad, and he's out there getting it

292
00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:53,910
done, and my dad's out there getting it done. And you're here with this

293
00:18:54,410 --> 00:18:58,350
instant community of people who, you know, it is not everybody

294
00:18:58,850 --> 00:19:03,350
who gets to roll in town and. And be plugged into what

295
00:19:03,850 --> 00:19:07,270
is the sort of the legends of the community right

296
00:19:07,770 --> 00:19:10,990
away. Like, that's a unique experience. Yeah, I was blessed,

297
00:19:11,490 --> 00:19:14,390
for sure. And it was. I mean, it was so. It was so fun.

298
00:19:14,890 --> 00:19:17,310
I mean, I. It was a big risk for me, and it paid off.

299
00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:20,950
And maybe that, you know, maybe that stuck with me to some degree,

300
00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:24,190
is being able to come in and. And just like, get in with a group

301
00:19:24,690 --> 00:19:28,630
right away and just be welcomed into the community so

302
00:19:29,130 --> 00:19:32,390
quickly. I mean, people were. There was no question. There was no

303
00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:36,750
real bitterness on. On anybody. It was. It was amazing coming from somewhere

304
00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:40,590
that was. And I don't want to make it seem like I'm, you know,

305
00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:44,310
talking trash on where I came from. It was just very different. Totally.

306
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:47,390
When I came here, I felt like there were less.

307
00:19:48,190 --> 00:19:51,510
There were, like, less walls between groups. Right. Like, this group

308
00:19:52,010 --> 00:19:55,710
let me in, and it wasn't. I think maybe it's because it was

309
00:19:55,950 --> 00:19:59,870
kind of small enough at the time that, you know, you just kind of knew

310
00:20:00,370 --> 00:20:04,110
everybody from every kind of group, and that was. I had never seen that.

311
00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:08,390
I mean, to me, it was shocking, and it was refreshing. And, yeah, the skaters

312
00:20:08,890 --> 00:20:12,350
threw parties with the jocks on the basketball team and the football,

313
00:20:12,590 --> 00:20:16,110
you know, and everybody kind of hung out and did the same stuff. And,

314
00:20:16,590 --> 00:20:20,190
yeah, it was stuff. Were you. Yeah, I don't wanna.

315
00:20:20,270 --> 00:20:24,310
Shenanigans. Did some stuff. I think the statute of limitations has

316
00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:28,530
run, but I don't wan. More than happy to incriminate myself, but maybe not.

317
00:20:29,030 --> 00:20:31,690
So you can incriminate him, too. He does it all the time, but. Okay.

318
00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:35,850
Were you and your brother close at this stage in life? Yeah, I think so.

319
00:20:36,350 --> 00:20:38,730
I mean, we're always. I was kind of more of a hard ass with him,

320
00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:42,010
I think at that point. Because, you know, I mean, we,

321
00:20:42,490 --> 00:20:45,530
you know, my mom raised us and my dad was on the other side of

322
00:20:46,030 --> 00:20:49,890
the continent, so just, you know, I mean, it forced us to be

323
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:54,170
tight. Yeah, right. And you know, in my. And I don't know if my

324
00:20:54,670 --> 00:20:57,810
mom was in a. Was in a great place for a long time after

325
00:20:58,310 --> 00:21:01,970
the divorce. I mean, she kind of struggled with, you know, several issues like

326
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:06,290
drinking and, you know, stuff like that. And so I always felt

327
00:21:06,790 --> 00:21:09,730
the need to kind of step in and take more of. Not a father role

328
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:13,450
because that. That sounds a little ridiculous, but take care of your

329
00:21:13,950 --> 00:21:18,060
brother. Yeah, right. To just kind of try and be

330
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,940
more active in kind of man just being

331
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,100
more active in his life and just kind of being rough on

332
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,020
him. And I think, you know, that eventually came to a head where we just

333
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,260
had a blowout and, you know, I think we came close to knocking each

334
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,980
other out at a. Oh, good. Yeah. When I came home from Christmas one year

335
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,540
and that was it. And then we were super tight after that. Get it out

336
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,710
of your system. Yeah. He got big enough. He got bigger than.

337
00:21:46,270 --> 00:21:49,710
He got bigger than me. And that can cause a problem. Big enough.

338
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:52,750
And he was like, I think I've had enough of this shit. For sure.

339
00:21:53,710 --> 00:21:57,790
Yeah. And the boy brain usually communicates

340
00:21:58,290 --> 00:22:01,710
through physical, of course, words. Yeah, I remember

341
00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:06,030
this. I remember the stories about this interaction and.

342
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:10,390
How old, how old were you? Well, it was after

343
00:22:10,890 --> 00:22:14,270
high school because I think it was. I came home my first year

344
00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:18,170
of college. I went to college up in Montana, so I'd driven home for

345
00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:21,130
the holidays. And yeah, I think it was. I was.

346
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:25,450
He was 15, something like that.

347
00:22:25,530 --> 00:22:29,370
Yeah. That's a good battle. It was a good battle. The Christmas tree

348
00:22:29,870 --> 00:22:32,570
went down. My mom was hysterical.

349
00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:37,930
I'm sure the animals scattered and. Oh my God.

350
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:41,610
But it brought us together. I think ultimately it was kind of an inflection

351
00:22:41,690 --> 00:22:45,630
point and it's. It really seems like it was. It was

352
00:22:46,130 --> 00:22:49,430
inevitable that we would become tight. Right. Just because of our circumstances.

353
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:52,630
And after that, it was mostly good.

354
00:22:53,030 --> 00:22:55,830
I could still be kind of a hard ass with him to this day.

355
00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:59,590
I'm sure it's just the dynamic. I try to be more mindful of it.

356
00:22:59,910 --> 00:23:03,510
That's good. Yeah. At 50, we finally got mindful. Good job.

357
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:07,430
I am, Yeah. I am a. Certainly a late bloomer

358
00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:11,150
in all. In all respects. I mean, I don't know about. With a

359
00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:16,070
five month old, you're about to get a lot more mindful. I know Indeed.

360
00:23:17,090 --> 00:23:20,650
Indeed. Yeah. Okay. So you went off to college in Montana.

361
00:23:21,150 --> 00:23:25,650
Did you finish college up there? I did, yeah. I graduated

362
00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:29,570
in 99. First couple years, I kind of struggled to

363
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:33,010
find something, but then kind of eventually found my niche and something I.

364
00:23:34,050 --> 00:23:37,850
I wanted to do and I was interested in. And so just kind

365
00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:41,810
of. What was that? History. Yeah, I. I kind of

366
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:45,500
was. Yeah. Didn't really know what I was gonna study. And I always,

367
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,220
you know, I sat down one day and I just figured, like. Well, I've always

368
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,220
kind of been interested in history, so maybe I should start just taking some of

369
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,940
those classes and that's cool. And just had a really good opportunity to

370
00:23:57,260 --> 00:24:00,580
get some good professors. I had kind of an emphasis

371
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,180
on, like, Islamic history. And there was. There was

372
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,620
a certain professor there, Merdad Kia. And he

373
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,020
was Iranian. Persian. Iranian. He had left in the revolution in 79.

374
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,120
And I think he was. His family was part

375
00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:20,120
of the Shah's government, interestingly. Wow.

376
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,880
So he gave this, like, really cool. I took a class

377
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:28,480
on the 79 Revolution in Iran and just found it fascinating.

378
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:32,360
Right. Like, the, you know, the whole power vacuum and all these different,

379
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,400
you know, influence groups coming in. And so it

380
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:39,880
kind of really sealed for me, just kind of wanting to study history.

381
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:43,880
I think at one point I probably wanted to, you know, get a master's or

382
00:24:44,380 --> 00:24:47,920
PhD or something in teach, but, you know, I lost

383
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:51,480
my way as. As people do. I've never been very good at, you know,

384
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,400
if. If my path has certainly not been

385
00:24:55,900 --> 00:25:00,000
linear in any respect. So it's. Hold on. So you lost your way into a

386
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,960
law degree? Yeah, so, yeah, a lot of people lose their way into, like,

387
00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:07,440
the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniels. We did that.

388
00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:11,320
There was certainly a lot of Jack Daniels. There was. That's why we have hair

389
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,810
on our face and chest. And it's great. But. And I lost.

390
00:25:15,310 --> 00:25:18,770
Not on my head. You and Bill make me jealous perpetually.

391
00:25:18,850 --> 00:25:22,370
But, dude, finding your way into a law degree and

392
00:25:22,770 --> 00:25:26,530
getting to sort of flex your

393
00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:30,250
muscles in that way where you actually can choose to have an impact in

394
00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:34,210
a different way. Talk to us about that a little bit, because I think

395
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:38,170
that whole. That journey, like, you don't need to go that

396
00:25:38,670 --> 00:25:41,330
deep, but, like, it's pretty cool to go down the.

397
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:46,510
The path of getting a law degree and then clerking

398
00:25:47,010 --> 00:25:50,510
where you did is really interesting. That's like. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

399
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:54,310
That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was cool. Okay, he's teeing you up. What is it?

400
00:25:54,810 --> 00:25:58,190
Go. Well, I think, you know, it. It wasn't like,

401
00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:00,870
I got my history degree and I went straight into,

402
00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:05,350
you know, doing the LSAT and getting ready to go to law school.

403
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:09,830
I think there was. There was certainly a learning period. I think after it was

404
00:26:10,330 --> 00:26:13,840
actually, I left school a year early and moved to

405
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,560
New York City and was working in film there. I was working as

406
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:21,800
a production assistant on music videos, so I did that. How did

407
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:26,320
you get that? It was through a woman I had met who I was dating

408
00:26:26,820 --> 00:26:30,560
at the time, and she was working in production

409
00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:35,360
as a producer and some of her friends. And I got in via

410
00:26:35,860 --> 00:26:39,810
the relationship with her and just started working these

411
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:43,370
videos. And it was. It was all hip hop music videos, which was,

412
00:26:43,450 --> 00:26:46,810
you know, again, I was getting exposed to a whole different world

413
00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:50,970
of, of, you know, Montana to Montana,

414
00:26:51,050 --> 00:26:54,410
straight to the hip hop world in New York. And so

415
00:26:54,969 --> 00:26:57,930
it was, you know, so I did that and then, you know,

416
00:26:58,410 --> 00:27:01,770
so I did that for a while and, and, you know,

417
00:27:02,270 --> 00:27:05,890
I think that I enjoyed it. I certainly had a lot of fun. But then

418
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:09,610
I realized maybe it's not for me. And then during that period,

419
00:27:11,270 --> 00:27:15,030
my dad, he got into some issues with

420
00:27:15,530 --> 00:27:19,270
the, with the feds, and he ended up. He ended up in federal

421
00:27:19,770 --> 00:27:23,550
prison. And so. And I didn't even know it until my

422
00:27:24,050 --> 00:27:27,750
stepmom actually had called me when I was. I remember it because it was

423
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:32,030
actually, maybe I called her just because I realized I hadn't talked

424
00:27:32,530 --> 00:27:35,670
to my dad in maybe a year and she had explained, like,

425
00:27:36,170 --> 00:27:39,330
he had ended up going to a federal penitentiary.

426
00:27:39,410 --> 00:27:42,650
Your dad went to prison and you didn't know? I didn't know.

427
00:27:43,150 --> 00:27:46,490
Yeah. I mean, tell me, him being convicted or

428
00:27:46,990 --> 00:27:49,970
anything like that. And so, And I didn't.

429
00:27:50,610 --> 00:27:53,730
Obviously that hit me pretty hard. I mean, you know,

430
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:56,770
I, I was. I think I was still in that phase of life where I.

431
00:27:57,270 --> 00:28:00,010
In a lot of ways, I still really looked up to my, to my dad.

432
00:28:00,510 --> 00:28:03,410
And. And so that really was kind of a.

433
00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:06,850
Was kind of a shocker and just to kind of jump ahead,

434
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:11,090
you know, finally when my dad was, you know, when he was out and then

435
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:14,970
just kind of hearing a little bit of his story and really

436
00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:19,010
just one side of the story, right? I mean, there's always, there's always two

437
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:23,570
sides. You know, I had felt like, wow, it's pretty interesting how

438
00:28:23,650 --> 00:28:27,690
the federal government can have so much power and just take away someone's life

439
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:31,180
and livelihood, you know, so quickly. Right.

440
00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:35,140
And so I think that had really. I had always kind of tinkered

441
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,620
around with law school, but that had really kind of pushed me over the edge

442
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:42,420
oh, interesting. In terms of, like, being motivated to, you know,

443
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,100
study hard, take the lsat, and then, you know, start applying for law schools.

444
00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:50,700
The phone call. And when you found out you were still in New York.

445
00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:53,980
Yeah, okay, I was. I was still in New York at the time,

446
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,040
and. And, you know, still doing the thing on video shoots and when

447
00:28:59,540 --> 00:29:02,520
the work was there and then when the work wasn't there, I was an artist

448
00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:06,600
assistant for a friend of mine's mom, who was. Was an artist, was a painter.

449
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,520
So just, like, mixing, paint, stuff like that.

450
00:29:10,020 --> 00:29:13,280
Nothing super creative. But where did you apply to

451
00:29:13,780 --> 00:29:17,080
go to school, though? When you. So you're in New York, you're doing music

452
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,480
videos to pay the bills. You're. You're an art assistant to

453
00:29:20,980 --> 00:29:24,870
pay the bills. You've got kind of a

454
00:29:25,370 --> 00:29:29,310
whole lot of news coming in. Right? I mean, there's a lot of input happening

455
00:29:29,810 --> 00:29:33,510
at that time. You have this. I know,

456
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:37,550
because I was there for some of it. There's this foot

457
00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:41,030
in the world of, you know, playing in

458
00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:45,110
the mountains. That is one of the things, especially for

459
00:29:45,610 --> 00:29:48,950
people who come from the Midwest or the east coast, once they touch the

460
00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:51,870
West a little bit, like, it's like.

461
00:29:52,590 --> 00:29:56,230
It's just intoxicating at this level that you can't get rid of.

462
00:29:56,730 --> 00:29:59,710
Very few people touch it and never come back. And I know you well enough

463
00:30:00,210 --> 00:30:04,150
to know that. It's like you're hearing stories of people running rivers, and you're

464
00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:08,230
like, I know there's a part of you that's like, okay, I can only do

465
00:30:08,730 --> 00:30:12,230
this for so long. Where did you apply to go to school when that

466
00:30:12,730 --> 00:30:16,110
started? Kind of. How did that smoothie blend?

467
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:19,770
Well, Yeah, I mean, the timeline's a little. Is janky. Right? Again,

468
00:30:20,270 --> 00:30:23,610
it's not a clean timeline. So then. Well, then that is such a

469
00:30:24,110 --> 00:30:27,250
word of our generation, and I love it. Yeah, I know. Well,

470
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:30,930
it's so descriptive, and it really so good. It can be spot on. And it's

471
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:33,970
all of our cars at that time. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it's

472
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:37,770
my car right now. I think score right now.

473
00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:41,410
Put myself in that category, too. I think I have, like, five pounds of sand

474
00:30:41,910 --> 00:30:43,730
in the back of my shitty Subaru right now.

475
00:30:45,270 --> 00:30:49,070
Real janky. Okay, sorry, go. So I. I had actually come back to

476
00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:52,830
Park City because I was just kind of missing. You know, I kept coming back

477
00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:55,990
for, like, weeks at a time, and. And I ended up coming back,

478
00:30:56,550 --> 00:30:59,830
and I was like, look, I'm just gonna come back. I'm gonna get a job

479
00:31:00,070 --> 00:31:03,510
and just really Focus on studying. So I did that here.

480
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:07,430
And I had worked at Maletti's actually up, up on Main

481
00:31:07,930 --> 00:31:11,150
street, my. My friend's mom's restaurant. Did you make bad choices

482
00:31:11,650 --> 00:31:14,330
there? It seems like that they were good choices. There were good choices at the

483
00:31:14,830 --> 00:31:18,490
time. I certainly wouldn't make the same choices today, but.

484
00:31:19,050 --> 00:31:22,650
So, yeah, it was just kind of enjoying being back in the mountains and playing

485
00:31:23,150 --> 00:31:26,810
and being able to get out and enjoy Park City and. And.

486
00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:30,690
But yeah, I actually, you know, I, I had

487
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:34,610
a focus at the time on environmental justice. So I did apply to

488
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:38,570
schools where I thought that, you know, I would have an opportunity

489
00:31:38,650 --> 00:31:42,480
to, you know, make a difference on

490
00:31:42,980 --> 00:31:46,320
the, on the environmental side. So I picked. One of the schools

491
00:31:46,820 --> 00:31:50,280
I picked was Pace University in New York, and they

492
00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:53,800
had a joint degree program with the Yale School of Forestry.

493
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,840
And that really kind of piqued my interest in terms of,

494
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,280
you know, being able to get a law degree and

495
00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:04,200
work with. And you guys are going to love this. It was.

496
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,520
The law school at Pace was affiliated with the Hudson Riverkeeper,

497
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,660
which at the time was run by the

498
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,100
current rfk, Right. Our current friend in the, in the Trump

499
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,940
administration. And so what's the Hudson River Keeper?

500
00:32:21,020 --> 00:32:24,940
It was. He was an environmental lawyer that was suing

501
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,740
a bunch of the concrete plants and other. Other manufacturing

502
00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:34,100
companies that had facilities along the Hudson river in New York for polluting

503
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,220
the river with PCBs and things like that. And so at the

504
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,350
time, he was like, you know, he was the

505
00:32:42,850 --> 00:32:46,390
bee's knees with a lot of the liberal folks, right, because he was doing a

506
00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:51,350
lot of this really great, actually really great work at the time doing

507
00:32:51,850 --> 00:32:55,470
environmental litigation on and cleaning up the Hudson river, which was pretty interesting.

508
00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:59,230
So, interestingly enough, like RFK and

509
00:32:59,390 --> 00:33:03,550
that whole program was an impetus for me to go apply

510
00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:07,970
for pace, which I got into. You had to apply for the, the joint

511
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:12,050
degree program at Yale. I didn't get in. That was part of the

512
00:33:12,550 --> 00:33:15,370
reason I left. And then also 9 11, which I was in New York at

513
00:33:15,870 --> 00:33:19,930
911 as well. So that was a. It was just a little bit much at

514
00:33:20,430 --> 00:33:23,970
the time, and I figured it was. And then I had transferred to. I'm skipping

515
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:27,810
ahead a little bit, and we can, you know, it's all good. We got like

516
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:31,730
20, 20 minutes left. So, yeah, I ended up transferring and doing my last

517
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:35,570
two years back in Montana because I. I was really committed to just wanting to

518
00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:39,390
be in Montana, being able to run rivers with a lot of my friends,

519
00:33:39,630 --> 00:33:42,190
kayaking and going skiing and.

520
00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:46,470
And, you know, just Kind of being away from. Yeah, from the

521
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:50,230
city. Honestly, I was. It. It was kind of a. It was

522
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:54,230
kind of scary being there during that. During that period. Okay, wait,

523
00:33:54,730 --> 00:33:58,110
so you started law school in the city? In New York? Yeah, it's. It Pace.

524
00:33:58,610 --> 00:34:00,670
Oh, you did go to Pace. I did go to Pace. Get into the dub.

525
00:34:00,750 --> 00:34:04,230
I didn't get into the joint degree. Okay, understood. Which honestly

526
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:07,830
is probably a blessing because I would be in way more. I would have been

527
00:34:08,330 --> 00:34:11,750
in way more student loan debt. Debt. Yeah. Going one year at

528
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:15,470
Yale probably would have doubled it, but yeah, it just. It didn't

529
00:34:15,970 --> 00:34:19,110
work out and so. Yeah. Transferred back and got

530
00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:22,190
it. Yeah, it was, it was. It was great. I mean, as soon as I

531
00:34:22,690 --> 00:34:26,190
got to Montana, it was back to Montana. It just. It felt

532
00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:29,950
amazing and I took full advantage. I didn't clerk or anything. In the summers I

533
00:34:30,450 --> 00:34:34,149
lived out of my truck and kayaked as a law student. As a law student,

534
00:34:34,649 --> 00:34:38,429
yeah. Okay, so you finished law school and went

535
00:34:38,929 --> 00:34:43,109
where? I took. Eventually I took a job as

536
00:34:43,609 --> 00:34:47,388
a law clerk in a rural. It's actually one

537
00:34:47,888 --> 00:34:51,229
judicial district in three rural counties is.

538
00:34:51,729 --> 00:34:55,389
Let's see if I remember Jefferson, Madison and Beaverhead counties in very

539
00:34:55,889 --> 00:34:59,840
southwest Montana. So the thing most people are familiar with in Madison

540
00:35:00,340 --> 00:35:04,280
county is Madison Valley. Right. Madison river for fly fishing. And then the Yellowstone

541
00:35:04,780 --> 00:35:08,360
Club is there, which, oddly enough, I was talking about some

542
00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:12,000
litigation that was involved with the Yellowstone Club. When I was a clerk,

543
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,280
the position was based in Dillon, Montana, but there are other courthouses

544
00:35:16,780 --> 00:35:19,600
in Virginia City and Boulder, Montana.

545
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,120
And yeah, it was a super amazing opportunity

546
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:28,540
for me to come into a very rural

547
00:35:29,420 --> 00:35:32,900
district. And again, it was just totally

548
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,700
different than anything I'd ever experienced and got exposed

549
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,940
to a bunch of different stuff and with a

550
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,820
huge backlog. I think there was a three year backlog because

551
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,860
it is rural, it is underfunded. So I was able to come in

552
00:35:49,820 --> 00:35:53,910
and just do a mountain of work and a. And I extended

553
00:35:54,410 --> 00:35:57,990
my tenure there, I think, by a year. Oh, wow. Do you like the judge?

554
00:35:58,150 --> 00:36:01,510
I loved him. Yeah. I mean, he was a huge. He was a

555
00:36:02,010 --> 00:36:05,470
huge influence for me. I mean, just a really. A lot of the

556
00:36:05,970 --> 00:36:09,430
ways I work now in terms of like concentrating on one thing,

557
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:14,150
really, like really putting a lot of attention to detail I

558
00:36:14,650 --> 00:36:18,230
got from that experience just because he was pretty hard on me. And I think

559
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,000
that's what I needed. I think at that time, I think he really expected a

560
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,800
lot out of me. He saw something that, quite frankly, I don't think I saw

561
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,200
him myself at that time. I Thought I was, you know, I was, like,

562
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:33,640
smart enough to pass the bar and go to law school, but he's.

563
00:36:34,140 --> 00:36:37,360
He. I think he saw a lot more in me. And it was just an

564
00:36:37,860 --> 00:36:40,280
amazing opportunity to really learn a lot about.

565
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,080
Not just about, like, the law and, like, how to work, but also how,

566
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,200
you know, how folks live in rural southwest Montana. Right. Which is,

567
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,040
you know, it's different law. I want to add a little color. Okay. Just because

568
00:36:53,540 --> 00:36:56,880
we know each other well and I've heard these stories and the

569
00:36:57,380 --> 00:37:00,760
picture that I see. Right. And summing up a little bit of

570
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:04,080
where we. How we got to where we are, you know, there's.

571
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,560
There's this bouncing around the country thing. Yeah.

572
00:37:08,060 --> 00:37:12,370
Circumstantial moves throughout your life. Some for

573
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:16,850
adventure, some because you don't have a choice, others because you do have

574
00:37:17,350 --> 00:37:20,970
a choice. And you end up clerking for a

575
00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:25,290
judge who runs cattle in rural Montana. Yep. The ski

576
00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:30,130
mountain that's nearby is called Maverick Mountain. And the. And the. The slogan,

577
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:33,810
mountain, by the way, awesome Mountain. 1. One lift

578
00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:37,650
runs on a generator. Dude shows up drunk with

579
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:40,770
a cigarette with a tall boy and a ciggy hanging out of his mouth.

580
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:44,950
He fires up the lift, get on it, and go. Pretty awesome.

581
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:48,910
And the slogan for Maverick Mountain is ride the white Thunder.

582
00:37:49,410 --> 00:37:53,150
That's right. Oh, my God. And it's a guy getting bucked. A guy

583
00:37:53,650 --> 00:37:56,910
on a bull getting bucked who has skis on so good you can rent it

584
00:37:57,410 --> 00:38:01,030
for a day and have Olympias out. Olympia beer out the wazoo.

585
00:38:01,530 --> 00:38:05,430
And like your dog run off leash. It's while you're skiing around the parking lot.

586
00:38:05,590 --> 00:38:08,230
Like, if you are one of the people who's like,

587
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,360
wham, Park City's grown too much. I want it to be

588
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,920
whatever. Go spend a week at Maverick Mountain and

589
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:20,520
get your fix. Get your fix and come back and be thankful you can get

590
00:38:21,020 --> 00:38:24,720
a good coffee here. Because the town that's right there is named Polaris,

591
00:38:25,220 --> 00:38:28,200
Montana, after a snowmobile. So, like,

592
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,160
and Charlie's out there. He's been working

593
00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:38,280
on hip hop videos in New York City, and now he's moving

594
00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:42,040
cattle for a judge who's cracking the whip. Like he,

595
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,680
you know, he sees the potential in you, gives you

596
00:38:46,180 --> 00:38:49,160
a mountain of work. I mean, the definition of you roll in.

597
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:52,600
They give you a small desk with a tall stack of papers and says,

598
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,960
go figure it out, son. And when you're done, I need

599
00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:00,400
you to put the cattle away and move the manure before you can go to

600
00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:04,640
bed tonight. Like, that is. That is a life

601
00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:09,160
story. In itself. And it doesn't even touch the

602
00:39:09,660 --> 00:39:12,720
last 20 years, which is so awesome. Like,

603
00:39:13,220 --> 00:39:18,080
that's a life story that you get to live and embody.

604
00:39:18,580 --> 00:39:22,200
And I think people can hear. I know I hear it whenever we're

605
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:26,400
talking. I'm like, dude, just keep it going. Because there's

606
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:30,800
so much magic in there that I don't think that

607
00:39:31,450 --> 00:39:35,330
you give yourself enough credit for. Traveling through the

608
00:39:35,830 --> 00:39:40,770
world with wide open eyes and having a lot of different experiences allows

609
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:44,010
you to see the playing field better than a lot of people. Oh, thanks,

610
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:48,210
man. Yeah, appreciate that. And that does jump us forward to a

611
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:51,970
little closer to today because what we were talking about yesterday when we were having

612
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:55,370
coffee and what resonated for me was like, oh,

613
00:39:55,770 --> 00:39:59,170
Charlie's moved in and out of Park City a number of

614
00:39:59,670 --> 00:40:02,720
times. He now lives in the San Francisco Bay. He's got a new baby.

615
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:07,990
His wife is a born and raised Parkite as well.

616
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:11,670
There are clear connections to this town that will never go away.

617
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:16,790
The town helped form you, but you do live there and

618
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:21,510
you secure large scale leases and do real estate deals

619
00:40:22,010 --> 00:40:24,790
for renewable energy companies. I mean,

620
00:40:25,590 --> 00:40:28,670
that is uniquely attached

621
00:40:29,170 --> 00:40:31,030
to some of the work that Lauren and I do. And you and I,

622
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:34,230
when we went skiing in Canada a couple years ago, it was fun because we're

623
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:37,850
talking to people about all these different deals that

624
00:40:38,350 --> 00:40:41,690
we get done. And honestly, just being able to speak the language with somebody

625
00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:45,650
with your experience made me feel better about my experience

626
00:40:45,810 --> 00:40:49,970
in life and where I'm going, because they

627
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:54,170
do cross over. It's interesting. And people who are buying 3 to 5

628
00:40:54,670 --> 00:40:57,970
to 10 to $15 million homes need a sophisticated

629
00:40:58,470 --> 00:41:02,250
level of communication that requires me having conversations with people

630
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:06,540
like you in order to speak around these issues.

631
00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:10,700
But in a little bit of a short way, how did you get

632
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,780
from being an environmental attorney and

633
00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:17,740
clerking in Montana to, you know,

634
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,020
doing these deals for these companies? Because I know it's been a journey.

635
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:23,820
Yeah. How do you get there? And like, how do those.

636
00:41:24,220 --> 00:41:27,900
Do you see how well those skills all kind of come together? Because they really

637
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,350
do, 100%. I mean, I. I wish I could give you a clear,

638
00:41:32,590 --> 00:41:35,910
you know, a clear indication of how it all happened and that I

639
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:40,190
was the architect of my own destiny. But really, it just, it. It was

640
00:41:40,690 --> 00:41:44,950
really just luck that I was given an opportunity to start working doing

641
00:41:45,450 --> 00:41:48,110
utility scale solar projects back in 2016.

642
00:41:49,230 --> 00:41:52,030
At that point, you know, my career just felt like,

643
00:41:52,750 --> 00:41:56,910
you know, it. There were definite periods where nothing really made sense to me.

644
00:41:57,410 --> 00:42:01,030
And when I found my way into kind of the

645
00:42:01,530 --> 00:42:04,430
real estate subject matter for, you know,

646
00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:08,390
these large scale power plants. It all made sense.

647
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:12,990
Like I felt lost in my professional life until I

648
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:16,470
was given an opportunity in renewables. And trust me, it was,

649
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:20,630
it was, there was a bit of luck involved there. I mean, I applied

650
00:42:21,130 --> 00:42:24,470
through an online process. You know, I wasn't contacted by a recruiter.

651
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:28,030
This wasn't, you know, I just kind of put myself out

652
00:42:28,530 --> 00:42:32,470
there, was given an opportunity to interview and you

653
00:42:32,970 --> 00:42:35,790
know, it, it just made sense. And, and that sticks with me to this day.

654
00:42:36,290 --> 00:42:39,950
You know, and building, building teams in this industry is giving

655
00:42:40,450 --> 00:42:43,710
people that don't have experience an opportunity to, you know,

656
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:47,990
prove themselves. Because someone went out on a limb for me. Were you

657
00:42:48,490 --> 00:42:52,030
in the Bay Area then? I was, yeah. I had moved to

658
00:42:52,530 --> 00:42:58,050
the Bay Area in San Francisco, particularly in 20 a

659
00:42:58,550 --> 00:43:02,410
job. This was kind of my first intro in the full infrastructure

660
00:43:02,910 --> 00:43:06,090
work and I was doing telecommunications work. A lot of the permitting,

661
00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:10,010
quasi legal real estate permitting work for, you know,

662
00:43:10,410 --> 00:43:13,530
cell towers and, and large fiber runs

663
00:43:14,030 --> 00:43:16,090
throughout, you know, mostly Northern California.

664
00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:20,210
And again, that was, that was certainly one of those instances

665
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:22,570
where I was like, what the hell am I doing? Right? It was a.

666
00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:26,680
I'm thankful for the opportunity. It did teach me a lot at the time.

667
00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:30,840
I was not, I didn't love it and you know, I had wondered where

668
00:43:31,340 --> 00:43:34,560
it was all going to end and I was hoping I would end up somewhere,

669
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,520
you know, doing renewables. Like, I've always been kind of interested

670
00:43:39,020 --> 00:43:43,040
in it and yeah, it just kind of. The opportunity came my way.

671
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,440
Okay, so a through line I would

672
00:43:47,940 --> 00:43:51,560
say that we hear about a lot on the podcast is about transition,

673
00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:55,660
which you've had a fair amount. Yeah. It's interesting because I

674
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,380
connect your experience moving

675
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,740
to Park City as a incoming senior in high school. The way you describe

676
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:07,420
your friendships was that people kind of took a chance on you then too.

677
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,540
Right? For sure. You're like, who's this new kid? Let's give it a shot.

678
00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:14,900
And then you talk about your career that way too.

679
00:44:15,220 --> 00:44:18,590
Yeah, Just kind of lucky. But you're also.

680
00:44:19,630 --> 00:44:22,870
With a few minutes left. I want to hear about this new transition of your

681
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:26,270
life that you're in as a 50 year old dad. Yeah.

682
00:44:27,550 --> 00:44:31,350
Yeah. How's that going? It's great. I mean, he's a

683
00:44:31,850 --> 00:44:35,230
beautiful little boy, Jack. Yeah, it's been amazing.

684
00:44:35,390 --> 00:44:38,590
It was a very hard journey to get here. We certainly would have,

685
00:44:38,670 --> 00:44:42,070
if it was up to my wife and I, I think we probably

686
00:44:42,570 --> 00:44:46,560
would have had him quite a few years earlier. But the one thing

687
00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:50,080
that's and again, it's awesome to have a kid at this age. I'm just.

688
00:44:50,580 --> 00:44:54,240
I just feel super thankful that he's with us. And in

689
00:44:54,740 --> 00:44:58,280
a lot of respects, you know, he's kind of a miracle in

690
00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:02,040
some ways, honestly. Yeah. So I feel blessed every time I look at him.

691
00:45:02,540 --> 00:45:05,800
He's beautiful. But it's midlife,

692
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,920
right? So, I mean, I have a brother that's, you know,

693
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:12,280
dying of lung cancer. He's struggling with lung cancer. And,

694
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,400
you know, I have a mom that's struggling with dementia and

695
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:20,400
is in memory care. So, you know, I have this

696
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:24,160
huge amount of love for this little human being that, you know,

697
00:45:24,660 --> 00:45:28,319
I helped create and so much joy and love around this one

698
00:45:28,819 --> 00:45:33,120
thing. While, you know, there's also, you know, some other things that. Some sadness

699
00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:37,080
and some really intense moments attached to other parts of my life.

700
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:40,950
So I would say there's a lot of benefits to having a

701
00:45:41,450 --> 00:45:44,870
child when you're a bit older, Right. You're more mature. You know, you're.

702
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:48,350
You know, most people are a little bit better off financially.

703
00:45:48,850 --> 00:45:51,270
Right? There's. You know, you make better decisions, hopefully.

704
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:55,390
But it's. There's. You know, there. There's re.

705
00:45:55,890 --> 00:45:59,190
There are realities to it, too, right? Like, you've. I'm dealing with the stuff that,

706
00:45:59,270 --> 00:46:03,470
you know, midlife throws at you, like I just described. And it's.

707
00:46:03,970 --> 00:46:07,310
You know, it can be really beautiful one minute and really hard

708
00:46:07,810 --> 00:46:10,790
the next. So it's. It's kind of a. It can be a mind,

709
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:14,550
to be honest. Like, you know, it's just. You're really

710
00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:16,550
holding both. Yeah. Yeah.

711
00:46:18,070 --> 00:46:21,750
Midlife is not an easy time period.

712
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:26,310
I wonder. This is something that I just noticed,

713
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:30,280
meeting Jack the other night and just getting

714
00:46:30,780 --> 00:46:34,400
to recognize the. The difference

715
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:38,320
in being a little older and being around a baby and they,

716
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,440
like, you know, they spit up or they poop

717
00:46:42,940 --> 00:46:46,720
or whatever, and you're like, your heart rate just doesn't race like it did

718
00:46:47,220 --> 00:46:50,520
when I was younger. And something like that happened when I was watching my sister's

719
00:46:51,020 --> 00:46:54,160
kids. She was 21 when she had kids, and, man,

720
00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:57,840
it just felt like an accident. Felt like the end of the world.

721
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,520
I think with a lot of life under your belt,

722
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:05,720
like, it just doesn't feel that way. It feels like there's a capo. You have

723
00:47:06,220 --> 00:47:10,960
the freedom to allow the energy to

724
00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:14,240
be slower. It's so good.

725
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,000
It's so good. And I don't know that that's always

726
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:22,240
the case for everybody and, well, being more present because you recognize what's

727
00:47:22,740 --> 00:47:25,490
in front of you. Yeah, I think it's gonna be awesome, dude. For sure.

728
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:29,850
I do too. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's. It's certainly easier

729
00:47:30,350 --> 00:47:34,050
to take a beat and, and let things happen right.

730
00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:36,610
When you're. When you're a little bit older and more mature.

731
00:47:37,650 --> 00:47:41,490
It's a gift you've given your son. A gift for sure. Yeah. I think you're

732
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:45,650
a whole other interview, too. We got a whole bunch more to cover,

733
00:47:45,970 --> 00:47:49,490
but we are gonna get kicked out of the room here shortly

734
00:47:49,650 --> 00:47:53,010
and my computer's running out of battery, so we're gonna wrap this

735
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:57,390
thing up pretty soon. You and 10

736
00:47:57,890 --> 00:47:59,950
years from now, what do you want?

737
00:48:01,070 --> 00:48:04,350
Like, what will. What do you want to be filling your life?

738
00:48:04,850 --> 00:48:07,910
Not necessarily. Where are you going to be or, you know, what do you want

739
00:48:08,410 --> 00:48:11,870
to accomplish, but what's important to you? Yeah. Years down the

740
00:48:12,370 --> 00:48:16,030
road. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's all about relationships and

741
00:48:16,530 --> 00:48:20,350
spending time with my family. It's easy to lose sight of all that stuff,

742
00:48:20,850 --> 00:48:23,550
you know, especially when you're in the middle of your career, you have a demanding

743
00:48:24,050 --> 00:48:27,290
job, but those are everything. Right. You see it. I think

744
00:48:27,790 --> 00:48:31,210
one of the big takeaways of having an older parent that's, you know,

745
00:48:31,710 --> 00:48:35,290
in decline is, is just how important relationships and connection and

746
00:48:35,790 --> 00:48:39,370
community are. And so for me, you know,

747
00:48:39,870 --> 00:48:42,970
I don't, I don't necessarily have a specific vision on where I want to be

748
00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:46,250
necessarily located or what I'm going to be doing. Like,

749
00:48:46,730 --> 00:48:49,930
I'm going to be, you know, on the nose of a longboard in Hawaii

750
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:54,350
from the North Shore, Kauai. That would be nice, but I'm

751
00:48:54,850 --> 00:48:57,070
not hanging my hat on it. Putting it out there. Yeah, I'm just putting it

752
00:48:57,570 --> 00:49:00,310
out there in the universe. But no, just, just,

753
00:49:00,470 --> 00:49:03,910
you know, making sure my family is healthy and happy and that I've taken

754
00:49:04,410 --> 00:49:07,430
the time to nurture the important relationships in my life and.

755
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:10,830
Yeah. And then I'm open to new ones too. Right. Like, a lot of people

756
00:49:11,330 --> 00:49:14,670
are just. It's hard to make friends being middle aged. It's really.

757
00:49:15,170 --> 00:49:18,910
It is fudgeing hard. It's fucking hard. So I mean, hopefully, you know,

758
00:49:19,410 --> 00:49:23,030
I. To just keep making more connections and building more

759
00:49:23,530 --> 00:49:26,790
community. Yeah. That's really all I'm. I think that's really all you could ask for.

760
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:31,030
I love that. The rest is fleeting. Yep. I think

761
00:49:31,530 --> 00:49:33,510
that you're gonna do a good job of that. Dude, I was gonna say,

762
00:49:34,070 --> 00:49:36,870
got the foundation of that. I think you're solid. But it does.

763
00:49:37,110 --> 00:49:40,870
Making new friends at this age is. But it's such a good

764
00:49:41,370 --> 00:49:44,830
challenge. Like, it's such a good challenge. It's good to know. Cause if

765
00:49:45,330 --> 00:49:48,920
you know, then you can go. And it's like, I think you

766
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:52,120
and I have spent a lot of time. And even Lauren and I have spent

767
00:49:52,620 --> 00:49:56,880
a lot of time being cynical at

768
00:49:57,380 --> 00:50:00,400
certain periods or towards certain things,

769
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,240
frankly. It's the foundation of what this podcast came out of,

770
00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:08,240
was our cynicism toward the real estate industry in Park City. And.

771
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,380
And you and I. I would say between you and Bill there,

772
00:50:13,940 --> 00:50:17,900
you're probably the only two people outside of maybe even

773
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,540
Joanna that get the full unfiltered version of my inner

774
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,100
monologue. Most people can't handle it. Lauren's getting there.

775
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:31,220
But I'll say that this is cool for me because you

776
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:34,420
two are like two of my favorite people. Oh,

777
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:38,020
thanks, man. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. You're the first one to

778
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,080
make him cry, by the way. It's so cool to

779
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:46,270
be in a community of people that. That matter this

780
00:50:46,770 --> 00:50:50,430
much and that, you know, will help you grow your community. That is just

781
00:50:50,930 --> 00:50:54,910
like, yeah, it's magic. And you can't. You can't do that overnight.

782
00:50:55,410 --> 00:50:57,910
Like, you can't just hope for it. You have to work for it. And,

783
00:50:58,410 --> 00:51:02,270
like, I hope you come to Mexico, because we're going on the 22nd to the

784
00:51:02,770 --> 00:51:05,990
26th, and you belong there. That's true, I do.

785
00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:11,220
That's building. And there's a lot of nose riding

786
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:15,100
going on. Yeah. Yeah. Even though some of it's just because our face is hitting

787
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,180
the front of the board, but, yeah, probably. Well, I'm grateful for

788
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,020
you. I think Max doesn't. He's pretty discerning.

789
00:51:23,420 --> 00:51:26,540
So if you get to be in that bucket of his,

790
00:51:26,780 --> 00:51:29,740
I don't have to ask any questions. That's all that needs to be said.

791
00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:33,420
So thank you for everything that you give to

792
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,850
him and everything that you give to this community, even from afar. Oh,

793
00:51:37,350 --> 00:51:41,010
thanks. That's lovely. Okay. The last thing I have to say, my nephew

794
00:51:41,410 --> 00:51:44,770
Cooper, every once in a while listens to the podcast. He's.

795
00:51:45,650 --> 00:51:49,050
He's 11, and he was like, bubba, when the

796
00:51:49,550 --> 00:51:51,970
heck am I gonna get a shout out? I was like, sorry, Coop. Okay,

797
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:54,770
so, Cooper Patterson, I love you, buddy. Here's your shout out. We love you,

798
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:58,290
Coop. Come back for dog sled camp next year. Yeah, buddy.

799
00:51:58,610 --> 00:52:01,530
So good. All right, we're on. Thank you. Thanks,

800
00:52:02,030 --> 00:52:02,370
Charlie. Thank you.